Touch AC question...

[IceBear]

Why on earth would you think that it doesn't? There's no place that it says "well, enhancement bonus really means armor bonus." They gave the bonuses names for very particular reasons, and I assume when they tell me that bonus types x, y, and z don't apply, then those are the only ones they meant. it would have been a simple matter to state that in the touch attack description, and yet they didn't, and haven't in any subsequent errata/printing/clarification. So you're assuming that through multiple revisions of the texts, it never occurred to anybody that they should add "enhancement bonus" to the list of things that a touch attack ignores? Seems no more or less baffling than assuming it isn't ignored.

Because it's an enhancement bonus TO your armor bonus, not to you.

I think you're making this out to be more difficult than it is. All a touch AC is, is the DC for someone to touch you OR your armor. If it helps you avoid being touched it would apply.

IceBear

 

[dvvega]

About enhancement bonuses ... its part of the armour ... the bonus doesn't stop me touching the armour ... it stops me penetrating the armour and damaging you. A touch attack need not penetrate the armour, simply touch it. The "enhancement" is that it is better than normal armour. It's not a forcefield stopping people from touching the armour.

As to the argument about other bonuses ... the wording in the PHB is pretty clear. Armour (inc natural) and shield bonuses don't count, however your other AC modifiers do count as normal. Note that, normally, the only AC bonuses you get are size/dex/deflection. This is barring operational spells on a person.

They don't list EVERY SINGLE bonus/spell since it would be silly (and if new spells came out they'd have to make amendments).

Its obvious what the "spirit" of the rule is ... they just have to touch you, so anything that stops them touching you counts. Haste would could (you're moving faster), but Magical Vestment doesn't since it enhances your armour, not your ability to dodge out of the way.

Well that's my opinion anyways.

 

[IceBear]

Check this page, under the heading "Bonuses From Magic Items." It lists what each bonus type modifies.

An armor bonus modifies AC. A deflection bonus modifies AC. Ditto for dodge, natural armor, haste bonuses, etc.

Note that there is no such thing as an enhancement bonus to AC. An enhancement bonus on armor modifies the armor's bonus. The (now larger) armor bonus is what modifies your AC.

If you wear +5 full plate, you have a +13 armor bonus, and that's all. You do not have a +5 enhancement bonus to your AC, because there is no such animal.

Thanks AuraSeer. As usual, you explain better what I was trying to say

IceBear

 

[Apok]

Check this page, under the heading "Bonuses From Magic Items." It lists what each bonus type modifies.

An armor bonus modifies AC. A deflection bonus modifies AC. Ditto for dodge, natural armor, haste bonuses, etc.

Note that there is no such thing as an enhancement bonus to AC. An enhancement bonus on armor modifies the armor's bonus. The (now larger) armor bonus is what modifies your AC.

If you wear +5 full plate, you have a +13 armor bonus, and that's all. You do not have a +5 enhancement bonus to your AC, because there is no such animal.

In the words of some ancient and powerful long-lost Philosopher-King-Wizard, "ditto."



AuraSeer has it dead on the nose. An armors Enhancement bonus doesn't get applied to your touch AC. The fact that it is magical rather than mundane (adamant or other special materials) is irrelevant.

 

[Doc Ezra]

Check this page, under the heading "Bonuses From Magic Items." It lists what each bonus type modifies.

Thank you. That was the step I was looking for to clarify the issue in my head.

There is however, one other question. Touch attacks ignore a Mage Armor? Strictly speaking, they should, but I'm not sure how it can stop incorporeals but not touch attacks.

 

[Arravis]

Glad we got to the bottom of this .

 

[dvvega]

Because mage armour is "made of force" as opposed to metal, leather etc.

Incorporeals can bypass natural materials, but not force.

 

[IceBear]

Thank you. That was the step I was looking for to clarify the issue in my head.

There is however, one other question. Touch attacks ignore a Mage Armor? Strictly speaking, they should, but I'm not sure how it can stop incorporeals but not touch attacks.

Well that's why there is a thread on incorpreal attacks below

Mage armor should have no impact on touch attacks. The problem is, the authors have seemed to have forgotten that when the made a big deal about it stopping incorpreal beings. There are no incorpreal beings that don't have a touch attack. By definition a touch attack ignores armor (including mage armor). Me? I believe the *intent* was to have incorpreal touch attacks be a limited form of a touch attack - one that ignores all armor except force effects. A question on this has been sent to the Sage and we are waiting for his reply.

Edit: Here's the link to the other thread:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37348

IceBear

 

[Apok]

There is however, one other question. Touch attacks ignore a Mage Armor? Strictly speaking, they should, but I'm not sure how it can stop incorporeals but not touch attacks.

The reason all attacks from incorporeal creatures are considered touch attacks is because they ignore normal physical armor. Mage Armor creates a field of force which acts as armor, and incorporeal creatures can't pass through force effects (since they exist simultaneously on the Prime and Ethereal planes). This provides you no special protection v. normal touch attacks, however, since all they need to do is make contact with you.

 

[Doc Ezra]

Because mage armour is "made of force" as opposed to metal, leather etc.

Incorporeals can bypass natural materials, but not force.

I got that. My problem is this: Mage Armor can keep a supernatural incorporeal entity from touching me, but not Joe the Barkeep? Seems odd to me, but maybe it's just me.