Try it in your game? Remove caster level.

[Visigani]

Do you plan to nerf all the monsters as well? CR is established assuming the strong ones stay strong.

With that said, your suggestion seems to have merit.

However, the line, "The Monk (The Most Balanced Class in the Game)" makes "Balance" mean mediocre across the board.

Again, mediocre in comparison to what? The Fighter? The Wizard?

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. You don't balance against other classes, you balance against the game world.


The classes need to be balanced against the game world. A wizard, who can effectively do anything is wildly overpowered and needs to be dramatically toned down.

But, let's do it your way... Fighter v. Monk.

What does the fighter bring to the table, really? Damage, buffing (due to his usually higher AC and pool of hitpoints the fighter negates the need to heal others) and a limited number of control abilities.

He might bring significant damage and he could have potential for absorbing blows, and he might trip like a madman.


What does the monk bring? A host of skills, from sneaking to diplomacy, and though he lacks the fighters hitpoint pool he brings the immunity to disease, poison and a natural resistance to magical effects to the table. A ray of enfeeblement that would make a fighter useless unless he possessed magical protections (which consume wealth or spellslots) is casually dismissed by the monk who was able to spend that wealth on other goods).

Is the monks ability to deal out damage and absorb direct physical punishment on par with the fighter? No. But the fighter doesn't possess the wide variety of often very very useful features the monk does.

 

[Dandu]

Visigani, I have a proposal. You obviously have a lot of time on your hands. You obviously are some kind of musunderestimated genius. You obviously know how to be an insightful DM.

Why don't you run a game here on EN World to test out your houserules? You can count on my participation in this momentous event, and I assure you I will do my best to make sure your proposed house rules are up to standards.

I figure we can get [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION] to play a monk and [MENTION=35909]StreamOfTheSky[/MENTION] to play a rogue, so that's three people right there!

 

[the Jester]

A ray of enfeeblement that would make a fighter useless unless he possessed magical protections (which consume wealth or spellslots) is casually dismissed by the monk who was able to spend that wealth on other goods).

I think what you mean here is "reduces a monk to Str 1 more quickly than a fighter".

Unless you're talking 4e, a monk still relies on Strength for his attacks, and he's likely to have a lower Strength score than an equal-level fighter.

 

[Dandu]

What he means is that the Monk's SR will protect him.

 

[cjosephs1s]

Awesome!!! I'll Play a Fighter (or a TAnk Crusader since I just built one...lol)! Bring the pain!

But yeah..i've yet to see even in our Gestalt campaign our Half titan 8 (Bastards and Bloodlines supplement..not WotC)/Monster of Legend 7/Fighter4 Wizard 19 with access to every spell in the PHB, PHB2 and Spell compendium (both wizard and cleric as a 19th level caster for each) throw out micro nukes. My Fire Giant 19/Fighter 19 could do on 1 crit what one of his empowered maximized spells could do and I still get 4 more attacks plus at least one AoO that round.

His character can do just about anything imaginable. My toon can swing his weapon like nobodies business. If anything I'd say make my toon more versatile so that I don't have a dozen feats that just stack Damage Reduction because there's nothing else that really helps me. It gets really bad when you have 20 books to look through and the best feat you can find at level 12 gives you damage reduction and that's what you take till you hit epic levels over and over and over. Give me more skills and more skill poiints so I can Spot or Listen when something is approaching. I have more dump stats (Int, Dex, and Cha) than most classes. I could even dump a low score in Wis and it wouldnt' be a huge deal. Don't get me wrong..I love my fighter but I'd rather get a boost than nerf someone else...That's not fair to them.

In my opinion monks are horrible to play. They get a little this and little that but dont' really do anything well. I played one for a few gaming sessions and he sucked. Even Gestalted with an Astral Deva he sucked in combat compared to every other toon I've made. He was near impossible to hit or do anything to but who cares if he's useless in combat. Maybe its just me but I want a toon that does 1 or 2 things really well.

As for nerfing caster level for casters. You're going to end up a lot of fighter types and blitzkrieg style play where PCs try to kill monsters as fast as they can doing as much melee damage as possible. At least that's what our party would do. And what do you do about clerics with their heal spells? Does heal only do 110 points of healing now?

 

[Dandu]

As for nerfing caster level for casters. You're going to end up a lot of fighter types and blitzkrieg style play where PCs try to kill monsters as fast as they can doing as much melee damage as possible.

I think it would still be viable to play a spellcaster who focuses on Battlefield Control, Buffing, and SR: No spells. You know, the overpowered kind.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I figure we can get [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION] to play a monk and [MENTION=35909]StreamOfTheSky[/MENTION] to play a rogue, so that's three people right there!

You only say that because you know my Monk builds are silly.

 

[Dandu]

But also very appropriate.

 

[Visigani]

How does one play via enworld? I'm considering your proposal seriously.

 

[Herzog]

This houserule sounds a bit like the way Psionics work...
Instead of implementing this houserule, why not just replace wizard and cleric casting with a psionic equivalent, and see how that works?