TV - Doctor Who SE04 EP06: The Doctors Daughter (spoilers)

Fast Learner

First Post
Morrus said:
How would a new one stop him being upset about the old one?
I don't live in a world where instant adult cloning is possible, but if the machine creates someone who is exactly like Jenny except for the last few hours of memory, while it might be creepy and take getting used to, it might well ease the pain of death.

That brings us, of course, into "what is a person" territory, though, which I suppose could easily get off track.
 

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Felon

First Post
Fast Learner said:
I don't live in a world where instant adult cloning is possible, but if the machine creates someone who is exactly like Jenny except for the last few hours of memory, while it might be creepy and take getting used to, it might well ease the pain of death.
OK, think about it. If someone you love died, do you really think everything would be OK if you could just summon up a copy of them? A lot of people think that would cheapen both the individual's life and death.

At any rate, according to the Doctor's ramblings during Jenny's creation, the machine doesn't make clones. Insted, the machine takes your cells and creates an instant test tube baby.
 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Fast Learner said:
I don't live in a world where instant adult cloning is possible, but if the machine creates someone who is exactly like Jenny except for the last few hours of memory, while it might be creepy and take getting used to, it might well ease the pain of death.

OK, maybe you believe it's possible it would ease your pain if you were in that situation; clearly it wouldn't make the Doctor feel any better, though, as evidenced by his not-cloning-himself-again.
 


horacethegrey

First Post
Victim said:
For example, the Doctor bringing his atmospheric converter to use on board a ship in the previous episode.
Other notable examples include:
- Converting a lighthouse into a laser tower and destroying a Rutan warship in The Horror of Fang Rock.
- Uploading a binary code that disabled the alternate earth Cybermen's emotional inhibitor circuit, thus driving them insane and to death in The Age of Steel.
- Opening the void, and sucking in all the invading Cybermen and Daleks in Doomsday.
- Drowning the Rachnoss empress' children with the Thames in The Runaway Bride.
- Destroying the Pyrovile and the entire city of Pompeii and it's people by directly causing the eruption of Vesuvius in The Fires of Pompeii.

The Doctor's hardly in any position to condemn people of killing, when he himself has caused death on a massive scale. The Dalek's didn't call him The Oncoming Storm for nothing.
 

Is nobody besides me irritated that Jenny's "regeneration" wasn't one? I mean, I'm not a Dr. Who expert, but I was under the impression that regeneration--complete with new body, face, and persona--was the only form of "coming back to life" the Time Lords had. This whole "awakening from death but being exactly the same" bit bugs me.
 

Fast Learner

First Post
Felon said:
OK, think about it. If someone you love died, do you really think everything would be OK if you could just summon up a copy of them? A lot of people think that would cheapen both the individual's life and death.
I dunno. If the person's entire personality and existence had been created from scratch a few hours ago, it might help, yeah. Understand, Jenny isn't a person, per se, in the sense of people you and I know. She's a construct whose only actual life experience was the last few hours. I really do think we're talking about something different here than our own experiences with people.

At any rate, according to the Doctor's ramblings during Jenny's creation, the machine doesn't make clones. Insted, the machine takes your cells and creates an instant test tube baby.
Right. It splits your chromosomes into two and then recombines them. He didn't say it recombined them randomly. In addition, it clearly implants memories and personalities, else they'd be born adult babies. Seems perfectly reasonable that it would end up creating an identical Jenny that was missing only the last hour's experience and memories, like mild amnesia.
 

delericho

Legend
Mouseferatu said:
Is nobody besides me irritated that Jenny's "regeneration" wasn't one? I mean, I'm not a Dr. Who expert, but I was under the impression that regeneration--complete with new body, face, and persona--was the only form of "coming back to life" the Time Lords had. This whole "awakening from death but being exactly the same" bit bugs me.

In "The Christmas Invasion", the Doctor regrows a hand, commenting that he was able to do so within 15 hours of his regeneration. IIRC, during that episode he also occasionally breathed out wisps of glowing energy - remnants of the regeneration energies.

Just before Jenny awoke, there was a familiar-looking wisp of glowing energy. Plus, the timeframe would appear to fit - the episode seems to take place over only the first few hours since her generation. So, perhaps it wasn't a regeneration as such, but rather a form of this same healing that allowed him to regrow a hand?
 

Volaran

First Post
delericho said:
In "The Christmas Invasion", the Doctor regrows a hand, commenting that he was able to do so within 15 hours of his regeneration. IIRC, during that episode he also occasionally breathed out wisps of glowing energy - remnants of the regeneration energies.

Just before Jenny awoke, there was a familiar-looking wisp of glowing energy. Plus, the time frame would appear to fit - the episode seems to take place over only the first few hours since her generation. So, perhaps it wasn't a regeneration as such, but rather a form of this same healing that allowed him to regrow a hand?

That's what I had assumed. I had figured that the Doctor was familiar with the process and able to control his hand's generation, whereas Jenny's healing was more instinct. I could see people being confused though, especially since the terraforming gas looked similar to those wisps of Time Lord energy.

I was also generally pleased with this result, as I liked Georgia Moffet's portrayal of Jenny, and it would have been a shame to have her regenerate right away, bringing in a new actress for any subsequent portrayal.

As to Fast Learner's point, I think the obvious in-story reason for the Doctor not growing more offspring immediately is that it would diminish her value as a person. The Doctor seeing her as a valid person and his child was sort of the point of the episode. The Doctor also regularly meets, forms some level of emotional attachment to, and saves people, or feels hurt by their loss before moving on without replacing them, so I don't see Jenny being different in this respect.

Granted, this is not consistent. The 9th and 10th Doctors have both talked about normal, everyday life and people in both a romantic and derisive fashion since the series returned. One only has to look at the first episode featuring Christopher Eccleston to see him consistently forget that Mickey had apparently died, who Mickey was, or why it would matter to Rose. Sometimes the Doctor seems to care too much about the small picture. Other times he ignores it completely for the big picture.

It doesn't really bother me though, and the same goes for his recently emphasized dislike for soldiers and guns. Is it inconsistent and hypocritical given the Doctor's own past views and actions? I would say so, but he has displayed those traits throughout many of his incarnations. I would not say that this "Do as I say, not as I do" approach is a new things. For all his amazing abilities and intellect, this is certainly one of the Doctor's flaws.

As for not repopulating his race with the machine, I cannot see the Doctor wanting to do this. He clearly has the knowledge of genetics to build one of those machines if he needed to, or otherwise accomplish the same basic task, but he has shown no interest previously in fathering a new generation of Time Lords. Jenny was unexpected, and unique.
 
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Fast Learner

First Post
My point on creating new Jenny's isn't really about a new race of Timelords or anything. Rather, the idea that a new Jenny could, in theory, be created instantly, really cheapened her death for me, and seems like it would have affected The Doctor differently as a result, too.
 

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