TV - Doctor Who SE04 EP06: The Doctors Daughter (spoilers)

[Mouseferatu]

In "The Christmas Invasion", the Doctor regrows a hand, commenting that he was able to do so within 15 hours of his regeneration. IIRC, during that episode he also occasionally breathed out wisps of glowing energy - remnants of the regeneration energies.

Just before Jenny awoke, there was a familiar-looking wisp of glowing energy. Plus, the timeframe would appear to fit - the episode seems to take place over only the first few hours since her generation. So, perhaps it wasn't a regeneration as such, but rather a form of this same healing that allowed him to regrow a hand?

I thought of that, actually, but it doesn't track for me. Her first "generation" had nothing to do with the energies of the Time Lords. She was created by the machine, same as anyone else. The fact that she happened to be semi-cloned from a Time Lord shouldn't have altered the machine's process. Counting her birth as a "regeneration" for the sake of healing within the first X hours feels to me like very laze and inconsistent writing on the party of the show's staff.

 

[Felon]

I dunno. If the person's entire personality and existence had been created from scratch a few hours ago, it might help, yeah. Understand, Jenny isn't a person, per se, in the sense of people you and I know. She's a construct whose only actual life experience was the last few hours. I really do think we're talking about something different here than our own experiences with people.

Well, assuming you actually loved and cherished the person in question, you probably wouldn't objectify them in a clinical manner like that. The person would be real, unique, and the loss wouldn't be assuaged by cranking out a simulacrum.

Right. It splits your chromosomes into two and then recombines them. He didn't say it recombined them randomly. In addition, it clearly implants memories and personalities, else they'd be born adult babies. Seems perfectly reasonable that it would end up creating an identical Jenny that was missing only the last hour's experience and memories, like mild amnesia.

The evidence we have is that the Dcotor refers to Jenny as his daughter, and refers to it as both "progenation" and "reproduction", not cloning. Moreover, we don't see other identical twins running around.

It's specifically mentioned that some military knowledge is imprinted, but otherwise she's a blank slate. Clearly, Jenny's personality is distinct from the other soldiers', and she winds up rebelling so it's obviously not the product of the original programming.

So we basically have no evidence that you get the same person every time, leaving us with nothing to contradict the overt intention to convey to the viewer that Jenny is unique and special.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Is nobody besides me irritated that Jenny's "regeneration" wasn't one?

I mentioned it, sort of, back on page one and agree. The nearest thing I can figure is that it was just some kind of anomaly. I recall during Romana's regeneration that she was able to go through several different "faces" before finally settling on the face of Princess Astra, so perhaps this is a similar sort of phenomenon (except that Jenny "decided" to retain her own face?), or maybe it has to do with the cloning, or lack of proper training in regeneration, or...

I got nothin'.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Actually, I sagree. It seems now that Donna is here, the Doctor is always wrong all of the time, and she puts him right every time. How he managed for 900 years before meeting her, goodnes only knows.

This is irritating me too. So far this has been my least favourite series of Dr Who for pretty much that reason

 

[Fast Learner]

Well, assuming you actually loved and cherished the person in question, you probably wouldn't objectify them in a clinical manner like that. The person would be real, unique, and the loss wouldn't be assuaged by cranking out a simulacrum.

Ok, but c'mon, this person is only a few hours old. "Actually loved and cherished" is assuming a great deal, imo.

The evidence we have is that the Dcotor refers to Jenny as his daughter, and refers to it as both "progenation" and "reproduction", not cloning. Moreover, we don't see other identical twins running around.

I didn't say cloning. I'm still not saying cloning. There is no need to use the word "cloning" in this discussion, because we are not talking about producing a creature that is genetically identical to the original. At all.

We are talking about taking a genome and rearranging it. In nature the rearrangement happens randomly, in the combination of two separate sets of genes. In a machine that does the rearranging, it could just as easily be done identically every time as done differently. We don't know. I'm suggesting it as a very real possibility.

It's specifically mentioned that some military knowledge is imprinted, but otherwise she's a blank slate. Clearly, Jenny's personality is distinct from the other soldiers', and she winds up rebelling so it's obviously not the product of the original programming.

She has an entire personality, knowledge of how to do all kinds of crazy things like walk and talk, the ability to understand emotions, ethics, and social situations, and much, much more. If all she had was "some military knowledge," she'd be laying on the ground, pooping her pants and crying, though with military knowledge. Her entire person is constructed, including every single thing she knows.

So we basically have no evidence that you get the same person every time, leaving us with nothing to contradict the overt intention to convey to the viewer that Jenny is unique and special.

We have no evidence that it doesn't create identical people, either. We have no knowledge at all.

If my child was suddenly born today, fully grown with a full personality, and then she died a few hours later, you bet your ass I'd consider the possibility of bringing her back, in the form of a new person. Why this concept seems so unlikely to folks completely befuddles me.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

If my child was suddenly born today, fully grown with a full personality, and then she died a few hours later, you bet your ass I'd consider the possibility of bringing her back, in the form of a new person. Why this concept seems so unlikely to folks completely befuddles me.

Probably because there are larger metaphysical issues involved and not just material ones. Notably, the concept of a soul. If such things exist, then would a reborn Jenny have the same soul, a different one? Would that make her a different person, the same? Who knows?

(It's not my personal belief, for whatever that's worth, but I can see where people who have those beliefs or similar ones, might certainly have issues with the concept you present, of simply "rebirthing" Jenny.)

 

[Morrus]

We have no evidence that it doesn't create identical people, either. We have no knowledge at all.

We don't. Maybe the Doctor knows better.

If my child was suddenly born today, fully grown with a full personality, and then she died a few hours later, you bet your ass I'd consider the possibility of bringing her back, in the form of a new person. Why this concept seems so unlikely to folks completely befuddles me.

Yeah, we've gathered your position on the subject. Fair enough. But allow everyone else the luxury of disagreeing with you, eh?

 

[Fast Learner]

Of course everyone's welcome to disagree. I'd just prefer that they disagree while actually understanding the situation instead of doing so based on not considering everything about it.

 

[Morrus]

Of course everyone's welcome to disagree. I'd just prefer that they disagree while actually understanding the situation instead of doing so based on not considering everything about it.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows the same amount of info about the situation as you do.

 

[Staffan]

For example, the Doctor bringing his atmospheric converter to use on board a ship in the previous episode.

Wasn't that the Sontarans' atmospheric converter? Or at least the kid genius's?