Two-blades ranger with two bastards - kosher?

[mach1.9pants]

You can have my Greatbow when you pry it from my elf's cold, dead... Oh, speaking of dead, what are those things sticking out of your chest?

LOL

Also I like cheese. it tastes good.

Rarely are there true words said on teh interwebs but this is true......mmmmm cheeeeeese

Honestly, I'm more concerned about the halfling rangers with two scimitars. (Can someone tell me why a scimitar isn't a Versatile weapon? )

I totally missed that.

 

[Patlin]

Only if you use one bastard sword for dairy and other the other for meat and don't mix them up.

Actually, I think it's more important to avoid cooking or eating the ranger with milk. After all, the question was whether the *ranger* was Kosher, right? I'm pretty sure rangers are a meat item, excepting warforged.

 

[Herschel]

Also I like cheese. it tastes good.

I'll send you some beerkasse cheese and we'll see if you agree. The stuff I've tried makes Limburger and Stilton seem mild.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Funny thing is that even a single bastard sword isn't meant to be used in one hand.

You can let go of one hand for some maneuver in order to gain reach but no one is history has ever set foot on a battlefield wielding a bastard sword in one hand and a full shield on his other arm, for example. But we do it all the time in D&D. MY PCs do it all the time! (Though I normally just imagine he is better than ordinary warriors with a normal arming sword).

And yet when we reach the dual bastard sword... it's too much for my little brain. Hell, it's even too much for the Hollywood fight choreograher! I dare you to find a live action movie where someone wields two bastard sword sized weapons. There are none. No leverage, unable to recover quickly from your blow, severely handicapped whenever someone gets inside your guard (which would happen all the time)...

To fight well with two bastard swords, you need to leave Hollywood fantasy and enter the realms of japanimation. Or, just imagine you are using standard arming sword more efficiently. It's an uber weapon focus!

I guess we all have different cheese tolerance level. But by the rules it's perfectly legal.

 

[Jhaelen]

no one is history has ever set foot on a battlefield wielding a bastard sword in one hand and a full shield on his other arm, for example.

Interesting! That directly contradicts the information I got. Are there any sources you can reference?

 

[Webby140]

Honestly, I'm more concerned about the halfling rangers with two scimitars. (Can someone tell me why a scimitar isn't a Versatile weapon? )

By their design, Scimitars have a single-handed grip. I wouldn't let a halfling use it even if he was a 2 blade ranger... simply enough: they're heavy blades - he'd just about be able to use one squeezing both hands into the handgaurd.

Again, I think its perfectly legal, but one of those taste/aesthetic things.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Historical bastard swords are quite light and balanced, something in the 3-4 lb. range. Although they were more often used two-handed, it's not a stretch by any means to have them be used one-handed, especially in heroic fantasy of D&D. Among some of the really goofy weapon styles to come out of this game, twin bastard sword usage is actually fairly mundane and reasonable.

while 3-4 pounds may seem light, They really only are usable with two hands. I think in real life (and sometimes even in cinema) its pretty silly to see someone that could wield two bastard swords or longswords. I used to be ok with the idea, but after a year of sword fighting with a two handed longsword, It now seems like a silly idea to me.

However, as far as the rules go, its all good, and if someone else wanted to do it, i would be ok with it... however i might point out how silly it is, at least once, but then i would drop it... or turn it into a running joke.

oh, and to clarify, what length do you see a bastard sword as? In real life terminology, i think a bastard sword is actually a sword that's one handed (broadsword) with a slightly longer grip, while a longsword is usually 2 handed most if not all the time. great sword i see as a Scottish claymore.

d&d has it a bit backwards in my opinion, but theirs nothing wrong with that.

 

[Tenniel]

d&d has it a bit backwards in my opinion, but theirs nothing wrong with it.

The Longsword of DnD is like the historical Arming Sword or Kinghtly Sword. The arming sword is "versatile" as you can grip one hand over the other or grab hold of the pommel.
The historical longsword is a longer version of the Arming Sword and made for 2 handed use. Though the grip (I read) typically is designed for one and half hands.
The historical greatsword is even bigger (and probably equivilent to the DnD greatsword)
The zweihander is really big greatsword (this is probably the fullblade in DnD).
The bastard sword (I think) is a refinement on the longsword. Two features allow for occasional 1 handed use: 1) tapering of the blade twoards the end and 2) balancing of the blade's weight with a longer grip and weighted pommel.

DnD fighters aren't historical warriors, they are might heroes of legend. So no problems from me with one handed bastard sword use or even twin wielding them.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

DnD fighters aren't historical warriors, they are might heroes of legend. So no problems from me with one handed bastard sword use or even twin wielding them.

I mostly more or less agree. I think a claymore and zweihander are about the same size though (in real life), as zweihander just means two hander. awhile ago i heard about a sword called a zweihander that was so big it required two swordsmen to wield and it was used against cavalry, although i haven't found any positive documentation to back that up, so I remain skeptical.

One way to get around the awkwardness of dual wielding essentially two handed swords is to make the figures look more bulky and giving them large hands. that seems to be the style these days.

the ultimate problem with dual wielding two handed swords (real life) is leverage , length, weight. The longer the sword the more likely they will interact with the opposite sword unintentionally, while at the same time the longer the sword is, the more weight that's put outside the body's center of gravity, and thus the more cumbersome the sword becomes.

I would be interested in seeing 46-50 inch swords tweaked for dual wielding.

just a random thought, The leverage one gains from the left hand is amazing

 

[Tenniel]

I mostly more or less agree. I think a claymore and zweihander are about the same size though (in real life), as zweihander just means two hander. awhile ago i heard about a sword called a zweihander that was so big it required two swordsmen to wield and it was used against cavalry, although i haven't found any positive documentation to back that up, so I remain skeptical.

Claymores seem to be in the same class as zweihander: big 2hd swords, and is probably also a fullblade in DnD terms. Maybe smaller zweihanders/claymores (as well as larger Longswords) are the DnD greatsword.

My reading of zweihander use is that is was for chopping up:
1)pikes, followed by
2)pikemen
which would otherwise inconvinience calvary. I think the japanese no dachi had anti-cavalry applications. The perhaps apochryphal zanbato actually means horse slaying sword... this one is definately a fullblade.