Two Interesting Magic Item Questions

[KarinsDad]

I prefer to compare it to the nonmagical Tower Shield which costs 30gp.

Which has a maximum Dexterity of +2, a –10 armor check penalty, a 50% arcane spell failure, weighs 45 lb., requires a hand to use it (unless used as cover) and gives a -10 penalty to combat (and Str and Dex ability checks) unless you have the feat to use it.

Yeah, that seems like a fair comparison.

 

[Archade]

Hi guys,

I should have been clearer -- I wasn't asking for input on whether these player magic item requests should or should not be allowed -- I had already decided (and given previous precedent) to allow it. I need help costing it out.

Piratecat, thanks! Now, would you allow a magic item to activate a non-intelligent power ability itself, or keep them separate?

Secondly, is anyone willing to bite at the staff idea? I tried reverse engineering a Staff of Power, but to no avail.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I'll create those rules right now!

Do those rules include "upgrading" like the OP asked? I think not! At least, it's not clearly defined to me.

Now, would you allow a magic item to activate a non-intelligent power ability itself, or keep them separate?

No, a non-intelligent item cannot choose to activate a power itself. An intelligent item, like I responded in the second post, can.

Secondly, is anyone willing to bite at the staff idea?

Well, you didn't give specifics and I tried to give you an idea with a specific example. Can you give us the player's detailed plans? It'll make it easier to price than trying to give you general guidelines for every conceivable ability.

 

[KarinsDad]

You're forgetting: Fly 60 (good) for the boots, Fly 40 (Average) for the broom. The boots will let you hover over the field of battle and use the Summon Monster line, Full Attack a flying beast, or similar non-moving tasks. Try that with the broom, and you fall.

Actually, I did not forget. I was just pointing out a major descrepency in power level. To really see which item has the advantage, we have to do a more comprehansive comparison (let me know if I miss anything):

Pro Boots:

1) Speed 60/40 vs. Speed 40/30
2) Good Maneuverability vs. Average Maneuverability (Hover vs. No Hover - can be used for full round attacks and one round spells in combat)
3) Speed/Weight limitation is based on the Strength/Load of the user

Pro Broom:

1) Duration 9 hours vs. 15 minutes (max 81.8 miles per day vs. max 3.4 miles per day)
2) Can be used hundreds of times per day for short durations (3 times max for the boots)
3) Harder to Dispel (Caster Level 9 versus Caster Level 3, a combat advantage)
4) Does not take an item slot
5) Can travel alone to a destination (can be used to send messages)
6) Item can be called to you from 300 yards away (can be usable, even if taken away from you)

Note: The speed advantage for the boots is not absolute. For example, small, low weight and/or low strength creatures in meduim+ armor/load could have a Speed of 40 with both items. On the other hand, a large strong heavy (400+ pound) creature in a light load could have a Speed of 60 with the boots and could not use the broom at all.


Granted, the items have different design goals. One is for combat and the other is for overland travel. However, the broom can be used (less effectively in some ways, more effectively in others) in combat whereas the boots are not very useful for overland travel at all.

It appears (to me) that the advantages of the Broom outweigh those of the Boots more than the 1000 GP difference in price indicates. The Broom just has a lot more overall utility.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Pro Broom:
4) Does not take an item slot

Are you sure of that? I have always thought of the broom as requiring hands to hold onto, taking at least one of your free hands/weapon slots. Unless of course, you don't wear underwear under your robe.

 

[KarinsDad]

Are you sure of that? I have always thought of the broom as requiring hands to hold onto, taking at least one of your free hands/weapon slots.

Do you need a hand to ride on a Carpet of Flying?

Why would a Broom be any different?

Based on the description of the Broom, it carries weight (no different than a wagon carrying weight). For all intents and purposes, you could put a heavy chest in front of or behind you on top of a Broom and have it not fall off. The Broom is affected as per Overland Flight, not the user of the Broom. The Broom does all of the carrying, not the PC.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Do you need a hand to ride on a Carpet of Flying?

Why would a Broom be any different?

Based on the description of the Broom, it carries weight (no different than a wagon carrying weight). For all intents and purposes, you could put a heavy chest in front of or behind you on top of a Broom and have it not fall off. The Broom is affected as per Overland Flight, not the user of the Broom. The Broom does all of the carrying, not the PC.

Because a capret is a 5'x5' surface or more, the surface area a character requires to fight effectivly.

A Broom is a 1" thick x 4' long stick. I do believe there are balance check rules if you are chosing to stand on it. You might get a small balance check bonus if you chose to sit and ride with no hands, or some other method of gripping.

If the user is affected by overland movement, not just the broom, you would need minimum of one hand to hold on (a-la Marry Popins).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do those rules include "upgrading" like the OP asked? I think not! At least, it's not clearly defined to me.

ADDING NEW ABILITIES
A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.

To make a +1 longsword into a +1 Intelligent longsword, wouldn't you jsut subtract the price of a +1 longsword from that of a +1 Intelligent longsword and pay the difference... just like any other 'upgrade'? Is there anything about the rules for creating intelligent items that make them different to any other sort of ability in this respect?

No, a non-intelligent item cannot choose to activate a power itself.

That wasn't his question. He's asking if an intelligent item can activate abilities that are not derived from its intelligent status.

In other words, whether 'their own powers' only include things found under the section 'Intelligent Item Powers', or not.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

A Broom is a 1" thick x 4' long stick. I do believe there are balance check rules if you are chosing to stand on it.

Who is talking about standing on it?

The item description states that it carries weight, just like a Carpet of Flying does. It does not state that whomever it carries either has to hang on, or has to make balance checks. For all we know, the user sits on the "straw" portion of the broom and not the "stick" portion and is totally stable. However, how it is done is irrelevant. It's magic.

A given DM might rule that you need a hand free to fly on it, but that is not what the item description states.

 

[TheGogmagog]

I stand corrected. There are rules for moving on precarious surfcaces under the balance skill. I don't see any rules for standing or sitting on precarious surfaces. If there were some, the broom would have to say it's an exception to that rule, even the brush portion at approx 1'x1' is not enough space to fight effectivly.

So have fun standing or sitting on top of a 10' pole without balance checks!