Two questions: Druid+Elemental form traits , Polys+inherent bonuses?

[Dthamilaye]

Hello.

I have 2 questions that I would like the clear out for my campaign.

1) If a druid wildshapes to elemental form, does he get the traits of the elemental too (Immunity to criticals, flanking, poison, stunning ....). Wildshape says that the druid gets all ex, sp and su -abilities, but that the type of the druid does not change. Those elemental traits are listed in the 'Special qualities' - area of their description.

2) If people get inherent bonuses via wishes etc, do they stack with the base physical stats when those persons polymorph or shapechange? Ie, having +3 inherent bonus to STR would be still available when the caster or druid is in poymorphed/wildshaped/shapechanged form?

Thank You.

 

[Diirk]

1) Hmm, I see what you mean, up to the DM I guess, could make an argument for it either way.

2) Yes, you keep your inherent bonuses when you shapechange... they're inherent

 

[Zodar]

1) If a druid wildshapes to elemental form, does he get the traits of the elemental too (Immunity to criticals, flanking, poison, stunning ....). Wildshape says that the druid gets all ex, sp and su -abilities, but that the type of the druid does not change. Those elemental traits are listed in the 'Special qualities' - area of their description.

Straight from Rules of the Game 'Polymorphing part 3':

A druid that takes elemental form retains her own creature type, but gains all the elemental's extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities (both special attacks and special qualities), and also gains the elemental's feats. Since the druid does not gain the features and traits of the elemental type, the druid does not gain the elemental's immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. The druid also does not gain immunity to critical hits or flanking. On the bright side, the druid retains the ability to be raised or resurrected, provided that the druid could be raised or resurrected in the first place.

2) If people get inherent bonuses via wishes etc, do they stack with the base physical stats when those persons polymorph or shapechange? Ie, having +3 inherent bonus to STR would be still available when the caster or druid is in poymorphed/wildshaped/shapechanged form?

I'd say no. When polymorphed you gain the Strength, Dexterity and Constitution scores of the new form. These supercede your 'normal' ability scores. As the inherent bonus is to your 'normal' score, you lose these bonuses when polymorphed (You effectively don't have your 'normal' scores when polymorphed).

 

[glass]

Straight from Rules of the Game 'Polymorphing part 3':
A druid that takes elemental form retains her own creature type, but gains all the elemental's extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities (both special attacks and special qualities), and also gains the elemental's feats. Since the druid does not gain the features and traits of the elemental type, the druid does not gain the elemental's immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. The druid also does not gain immunity to critical hits or flanking. On the bright side, the druid retains the ability to be raised or resurrected, provided that the druid could be raised or resurrected in the first place.

Yep, that is what the rules say. I think it is ridiculous though: how do you find a vital area to crit in a big lump of rock?

I'd say no. When polymorphed you gain the Strength, Dexterity and Constitution scores of the new form. These supercede your 'normal' ability scores. As the inherent bonus is to your 'normal' score, you lose these bonuses when polymorphed (You effectively don't have your 'normal' scores when polymorphed).

I agree, this is how I would rule it. I have seen good cases made for both positions, however.


glass.

 

[glass]

2) Yes, you keep your inherent bonuses when you shapechange... they're inherent

Inherent to what though? Your body, or your soul?


glass.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As the inherent bonus is to your 'normal' score, you lose these bonuses when polymorphed (You effectively don't have your 'normal' scores when polymorphed).

An inherent bonus is not a change to your ability score (like the increases every four levels); it is a bonus to your ability score.

If I cast Bull's Strength, I am a human with a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength.

If I polymorph into an orc, I am now an orc, with an average orc's Strength score (15)... and a Bull's Strength spell that grants a +4 enhancement bonus, for a total Str of 19.

An inherent bonus is a named bonus. It does not stack with other inherent bonuses. It is limited to a maximum of +5. It must always be tracked separately from your base score, otherwise you don't know when you've reached that maximum, or whether reading a Manual +3 will actually add 3 to your score, and so on.

So, just like I turned into an orc with a +4 enhancement bonus (since the spell is still in effect), I turn into an orc with a +3 inherent bonus (since the bonus is still in effect).

-Hyp.

 

[Diirk]

I agree that you don't gain the benefits of the elemental type, as listed in rules of the game. However you do gain the special qualities, and elemental traits are listed as a special quality as well... thats why there's wiggle room.

I don't think its intended that you gain them, but writing traits of a type under special qualities is foolish redundancy. If it means anything, if I had to decide for my games, I'd disallow it.

And what Hyper said for inherent bonuses.

 

[Antoine]

So, just like I turned into an orc with a +4 enhancement bonus (since the spell is still in effect), I turn into an orc with a +3 inherent bonus (since the bonus is still in effect).

Definitely.

 

[Dthamilaye]

Ok, thank you all for the insight.

That part of the 'rules of polymorphing' was a good call. I possibly should read allthe 'Rules of the Game' -articles from WotC site. Maybe the Oaken resiliency -feat is useful after all to the druid player IMC. Or take a level of Warshaper.

Hypersmurf has a point about inherent bonuses. I have to check it out how it plays in my game. I still might houserule the inherent bonuses, as the polymorphing/wildshaping to big high stat things and then fighting is almost broken already. Even if I have restricted stat maximums for all poly/shape spells.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

While I grudgingly concede that Hypersmurf is correct about the RAW, , I've houseruled Inherent bonuses to be restricted to a creature's natural form. I feel that they are meant to be a part of the natural, non-magical score, and are tracked separately for the ease of limiting them only.