Typical Animals?

[MythandLore]

You know I noticed that, but they don't get feats normally for some reason, I don't get where you should draw the line.
There is no real rhyme or reason to it.
It's like they just said, "I want to give him a feat now, but you, you get no feat."
Advancing rules on animals also says no feats.
Once again I say, Lame.

 

[Krishnath]

Uhm, clint, Why have you written the mouse as a vermin?

For those who are interrested, a list of animals suitable for familiari can be found in Dragon #280, the article is called "A Little More Familiar" and includes the stats for the following animals:

Fox
Hare
Mouse
Otter
Raccoon
Skunk
and
Squirrel

all in stat block format.

 

[Clint]

Uhm, clint, Why have you written the mouse as a vermin?

Krishnath, I was on the fence about mice being vermin/animal. MythandLore suggested that they were vermin, and... I've had mice in my apartment, and I agreed with him. But I guess that you're right, they should be an animal, since the MM describes Vermin as invertebrates.

So, MythandLore and Shir'kazan, should I try and put Feats on these creatures? Like you discussed above, I guess that I confused the monster advancement rules with the base monster rules.

Other than that, what do you guys think of these? Is this topic worth pursuing, or should I just cobble these together for my own campaign?

 

[MythandLore]

I've been toying with the whole thing for a while.
I think if you want it wouldn't be to hard to do lots of useful animals.
I don't have that issue of dragon so I don't know what the stats are that they did, but seeing as they are generic animals they can't really get are our case about it so I don't care.

I expaneded the list and put your ones in it, I just tacked on the ones Kri posted so we could get an idea of what else to add.

Clint I think your ideas are a good start but it would be a good idea to base the animals off old ones just to keep em similier, I also think it would be best to put them in a stat block format so we can read them. (I have a very hard time reading jumbled stuff)

I did a mouse a while back that I based off the rat, to give you an idea of what I was thinking.

ox
Hare
Mouse
Otter
Raccoon
Skunk
Squirrel

Llama (camel)

Turkey (Raven)
Goose (Raven)
Duck (Raven)
Chicken (Raven)
Chicken (domestic); CR -; Tiny Animal; HD 1d8-1; hp 3; Init +1; Spd 20ft, fly 20ft. (poor); AC 13 (+2 Size, +1 Dex); Atks +0 melee (1d3-3 peck); AL N; SV Fort +1 (good), Ref +3 (good), Will -2; Str 4, Dex 13, Con 8, Int 1, Wis 6, Cha 10.

Micro Parrot (Raven)
Parrot (Raven)
Parrot: CR -; Tiny Animal; HD 1d8-1; hp 3; Init +0; Spd fly 30ft (good); AC 12 (+2 size); Atks -3 melee (1d3-3 peck); SQ Imitate Language; AL N; SV Fort -1, Ref +2 (good), Will -1; Str 4, Dex 11, Con 9, Int 2, Wis 8, Cha 12.

Macaw (Raven)
Micro Falcon (hawk)
Falcon (hawk)
Falcon (domestic): CR -; Tiny Animal; HD 1d8; hp 4; Init +1; Spd 60ft fly (good); AC 13 (+2 size, +1 dex); Atks -3 (1d4-3 bite); AL N; SV Fort -1, Ref +3 (good), Will -3; Str 4, Dex 12, Con 8, Int 2, Wis 4, Cha 6.

Cow (bison)
Cow (domestic): CR 1/4; Medium Animal; HD 2d8+2; hp 10; Init -2; Spd 20ft; AC 8 (-2 Dex); Atks +2 melee (1d4+1 bite); AL N; SV Fort +3 (good), Ref -2, Will -3; Str 13, Dex 6, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 4, Cha 10.

Bull (bison)
Bull: CR 1; Large Animal; HD 3d8+9; hp 21; Init +1 (Dex); Spd 30ft; AC 12 (+3 natural, -1 size); Atks +6 melee (1d6+6 slam); AL N; SV Fort +6 (good), Ref +4 (good), Will -1; Str 18, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 6, Cha 10. Face 5ft by 10ft.

Domestic Pig (Boar)
Pig (domestic): CR -; Small Animal; HD 1d8+2; hp 6; Init +0; Spd 20ft; AC 10; Atks -2 melee (1d3-2 bite); SQ Resistant to Disease?; AL N; SV Fort +4 (good), Ref +2 (good), Will -3; Str 7, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 4, Cha 8.

Goat (bison/donkey)
Goat (mountain): CR 1/2; Small Animal; HD 2d8+2; hp 11; Init +0; Spd 30ft, climb 20ft.; AC 12 (+1 size, +1 natural); Atks +1 (bite 1d4); AL N; SV Fort +4 (good), Ref +3 (good), Will -3; Str 10, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 4, Cha 4. +10 racial bonus to climb checks.

Sheep (bison/donkey)
Ram (bison/donkey)
Ram: CR 2; Large Animal; HD 4d8+8; hp 26; Init ; Spd 30ft; AC 12 (+3 natural, -1 size); Atks +6 (1d8+4 slam); SA Ram Charge; AL N; SV Fort +7 (good), Ref +4 (good), Will -1; Str 17, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 6, Cha 10. SA: Ram Charge: Charge increases damage to 2d8+4. Face 5ft by 10ft.

Elk (bison/donkey)
Elk: CR 1; Medium Animal; HD 3d8+3; hp 17; Init +1; Spd 40ft; AC 12 (+1 natural, +1 dex); Atks +4 (1d6+3 bite); AL N; SV Fort +5 (good), Ref +4 (good), Will +0; Str 15, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 8, Cha 8.

House Fly (vermin)
Dragon Fly (vermin)
Horse Fly (vermin)
Bee (vermin)
Wasp (vermin)
Roach (vermin)
Ant (vermin)

______________________
MOUSE
Diminutive Animal
Hit Dice: 1/8d8 (1 hp)
Initiative: +5 (+5 Dex)
Speed: 10 ft, 5ft climb
AC: 19 (+5 Dex, +4 size)
Attacks: Bite -1 melee
Damage: Bite 1d2-5
Face/Reach: 1 ft by 1 ft/0 ft
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, Scent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +7, Will +1
Abilities: Str 1, Dex 20, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Balance +9, Climb +15, Hide +25, Move Silently +17
Feats: Weapon Finesse (bite)
Climate/Terrain: Any
Organization: Swarm (10-100)
Challenge Rating: 1/16
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: -
Mouse receives a +8 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks and +4 racial bonus to Balance checks.
They use their Dexterity modifier for Climb checks.

BTW I do think animal need a CR regardless, even if a chicken has a CR of 1/1000 I don't really care, but it should have a CR.
A farmer should be able to gain levels killing pigs, even if it does take a very long time, then at some point he may not because he could be to high a level.
But take a normal person, most peolpe who have lived in the city their whole life can't catch a chicken.

 

[Clint]

On Domestic Animals and CR

BTW I do think animal need a CR regardless, even if a chicken has a CR of 1/1000 I don't really care, but it should have a CR.
A farmer should be able to gain levels killing pigs, even if it does take a very long time, then at some point he may not because he could be to high a level.
But take a normal person, most peolpe who have lived in the city their whole life can't catch a chicken.

I agree that wild animals need a CR, but disagree on domestic ones.

It's not that catching chickens and slaughtering pigs correctly isn't hard, it's just that these activities are the exercizing of skills (Profession(farming)), not the same kind of "overcoming adversity" event that will help anyone become better at what they do. While you might use combat rules to hit and damage these animals, there will never be a threat of danger. Hence, no CR.

 

[Krishnath]

ever tried capturing a goat, pig or goose? no? didn't think so...

 

[MythandLore]

ever tried capturing a goat, pig or goose? no? didn't think so...

Thank you.

BTW I think "Profession: Farming" would be more about planting, devoted to agricultural.

There is also a "Profession: Rancher" and a "Profession: Stablehand"

"Farming" is a pretty genral term, normally a farmer could be a "Rancher" or "Stablehand" too.

It's all kinda vague in 3rd edition, you may have also seen the thread on how using the profession skill, nets you a less then liveable amount of money.

 

[Clint]

I'm quite happy to agree on disagree on the CR topic. Let's get back to the stats.

How many of those other animals would share statistics with something we have? For example, you list Turkey next to Chicken. Would they be similar enough to share stats, or are we just tweaking them for the new animal? Could we ignore my stats for Falcon and instead use Hawk?

Should the Elk have more HD? I gave it three, but I'm thinking that four might be more appropriate. You list (Bison/Donkey), are you saying it should be halfway between these two?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

How many of those other animals would share statistics with something we have? For example, you list Turkey next to Chicken. Would they be similar enough to share stats, or are we just tweaking them for the new animal? Could we ignore my stats for Falcon and instead use Hawk?

Should the Elk have more HD? I gave it three, but I'm thinking that four might be more appropriate. You list (Bison/Donkey), are you saying it should be halfway between these two?

Well, not that it means anything, but I included elk in my moose stats. I'm pretty sure I gave them 4 hd, but I'd have to dig out the CD that I burned it on to check. In the case of the elk and moose, I had them share most stats (elk can get pretty big), but tweaked them down a bit for the elk.