UA Monks Introduces the Kensai and Tranquility Traditions

The Kensei was pretty much exactly how I expected/wanted it to be. With the exception of the bludgeoning damage. A d4 that doesn't scale? I hate d4s, and especially at higher levels it's hardly worth anything. Especially since as a monk, I could just use my bonus action to make an unarmed attack and use monk damage dice for that.

I've never been a fan of pacifist PCs, so the tranquil monk isn't my cup of tea. I understand others may feel differently though.

 

[Zardnaar]

You can use a shortsword as a kensai weapon and use your martial arts with it.

A monk barbarian with PAM or GWM could be funny/abusive.

 

[Leatherhead]

I really don't see all the issues people are having with the Kensei tradition. Yes, you can't use them as Monk weapons, but you get other benefits.

Considering that one, if not more, of the benefits you are supposed to receive don't actually work properly due to this problem, I don't see how you can't see it. It's an actually broken rule, not merely an opinion that something is overpowered.

 

[Thurmas]

Most monks do 2x 1d8 + 1d6 at 5th level spear or qtr staff 2h attack and then unarmed strike gives you 24.5 also note you only get 27 if you hit two targets pummel only applies to the first attack to the same target so if it the same target they both do 24.5 at 8th level assuming max dex it passes it up and stays ahead from there.

Fair points. I hadn't really thought about the spear/quarterstaff since I used a pair of daggers last Monk I played. I also appreciate the clarification on the pummel. I do wish it was with each attack, or at least worded a little differently.

My main point was still that I feel it gives extra flexibility. I don't really look at things from a numbers point of view most of the time. I like versatility and flexibility more, and I think this gives it to you.

 

[Flamestrike]

A monk barbarian with PAM or GWM could be funny/abusive.

Why?

There is literally no difference between an Open Hand Monk 5 (Vuman, GWM and Weapon Master feats) and a Kensai 5.

A Kensai (using a greatsword) loses access to martial arts, just like the OHM does.

Both get to make 2 x Greatsword attacks (Attack action) using GWM if they like with thier action.

Both cant use [bonus action] attack via martial arts when they do so. Both can still use flurry for two more attacks though (but the damage is only 1+Str and they cant use Dex).

The Kensai can use his bonus action to wuss slap anything he hit this round dealing an extra 1d4 bludgeoning damage (instead of spamming 2 weak furry attacks). The OHM can impose OHM conditions on anyone he hit with his two weak OHM flurry attacks.

Both can spam stunning strike on every attack that hits. Both can use their bonus action to cleave if they kill something or crit something with their swords (instead of flurrying or the kensai wuss slapping).

The Kensai gets to use Dex if he wants for the Greatsword attacks (but not the unarmed flurries). The OHM is forced to use Strength for everything.

Its just clunky and poorly executed.

 

[Zardnaar]

Why?

There is literally no difference between an Open Hand Monk 5 (Vuman, GWM and Weapon Master feats) and a Kensai 5.

A Kensai (using a greatsword) loses access to martial arts, just like the OHM does.

Both get to make 2 x Greatsword attacks (Attack action) using GWM if they like with thier action.

Both cant use [bonus action] attack via martial arts when they do so. Both can still use flurry though (but the damage is only 1+Str and they cant use Dex).

The Kensai can use his bonus action instead to deal an extra 1d4 bludgeoning damage to anthing he hit this round (instead of spamming 2 weak furry attacks). The OHM can impose OHM conditions on anyone he hit with his two weak OHM flurry attacks.

Both can spam stunning strike on every attack that hits. Both can use their bonus action to cleave if they kill something or crit something with their swords (instead of flurry or kensai wuss slapping).

Its just clunky and poorly executed.

Its not the damage but the AC and using a dex based weapon to rage with. Dex wis con to AC. Combine it with lizardfolk AC of 13 and yeah.

 

[Thurmas]

Considering that one, if not more, of the benefits you are supposed to receive don't actually work properly due to this problem, I don't see how you can't see it. It's an actually broken rule, not merely an opinion that something is overpowered.

I've only seen your bonus action unarmed attack and Flurry of blows being affected by this, and I would imagine both of those was intentional. Nothing says you can't still use those abilities, you just can't be wielding a Kensei weapon when you do it. The monk is the only class that gets to make two full attacks at level 1 without feats. It balances a little bit for damage because the weapons used aren't going to be with a weapon die bigger the a d8. Again, you're trading frequency of attacks for more powerful attacks.

 

[Flamestrike]

Its not the damage but the AC and using a dex based weapon to rage with.

Raging with a Dex based weapon is bad. The benefits only apply to melee attacks that use Strength.

As for AC, its +2 to AC when you make an unarmed attack on your turn. That unarmed attack deals 1+Str damage.

Dex wis con to AC. Combine it with lizardfolk AC of 13 and yeah.

Dude come on. The games been out for 3 years now.

If you have more than one method of calculating AC, pick one (and only one) and if you have two classes with Unarmored defence you only get the 1st version of it you learnt.

You use either [dex+wis] or [con+dex+shield] and it depends on which version you learnt first. If you also have natural armor, you can instead use [natural armor+dex].

 

[rczarnec]

Its not the damage but the AC and using a dex based weapon to rage with. Dex wis con to AC. Combine it with lizardfolk AC of 13 and yeah.

That doesn't work, you can only choose one method of calculating AC.

You can choose Lizardfolk 13+DEX or Barbarian 10+CON+DEX or Monk 10+WIS+DEX. You cannot combine them.

In addition, you can rage, but you don't get the damage bonus if you make a DEX based attack, it has to be a STR attack.

 

[Connorsrpg]

Surely kensai can take a weapon they can already use. That sounds odd. And why 3? Master of one! Choose one, and I would like some limitation on the weapon too. Surely not mauls and greataxes? (We use more weapon qualities than core, so that might be an option for us).

 

[Chaosmancer]

I really don't see all the issues people are having with the Kensei tradition. Yes, you can't use them as Monk weapons, but you get other benefits.

If anything, I see the Kensei giving you much more flexibility.

Here's how I'm seeing it.

Open Hand Monk vs Kensei 5th level (we'll assume +5 dex, no feats for now)

Open hand makes 4 attacks, 2 with staff, 2 with flurry, for 2d8+2d6+20. They also get the Open hand optional effects with the Flurry of Blows attacks

Kensei using a greatsword/maul makes 2 attacks and pummels, for 4d6+10+1d4


Add feats, Open Hand stays the same

Kensei uses GWM and we'll assume hits 4d6+30+1d4 clearly taking the lead.

Polearm is even better potentially, because you can replace the bonus attack.


Now let's jump to level 17, no feats

Open Hand can flurry for 4d10+20

Kensei 4d6+16+1d4


GWM stills wins out though, getting 4d6+36+1d4

Polearm is actually worse, unless you also have GWM.


So, the only way Kensei gets better damage on a burst is to grab Great Weapon, otherwise the other monks end up with better damage over all, and if you've taken this sub-class I'd assume your intentions are to get better damage. And in fact, the only wayto out compete the monks normal non-ki spending damage is to use a weapon that has a 1d10 or higher damage die, because monks generally can use 1d8 weapons, meaning a longsword wielding monk is just as good as a staff monk, unless they are using two hands, until the point where the bonus attack from martial arts beats out the 1d4 from pummel... which is really early in the monks career, as I will gladly go for 1d6+mod on a roll before a 1d4 on a roll (because the weapon attack still has to hit)

The Kensei's only advantage for flexibility seems to come from shortsword wielding, and it only gives an AC bonus, which I have never seen be an issue with monks. Every monk I have ever DM'd for very quickly had a AC of 18 or higher, and the ability to Dodge as a bonus if they felt threatened.

So, you lose out on damage unless you take two of the most often complained about feats in the game, and you don't really seem to gain much beyond accuracy on hitting and adding to your armor class.