UA Monks Introduces the Kensai and Tranquility Traditions

The Kensei was pretty much exactly how I expected/wanted it to be. With the exception of the bludgeoning damage. A d4 that doesn't scale? I hate d4s, and especially at higher levels it's hardly worth anything. Especially since as a monk, I could just use my bonus action to make an unarmed attack and use monk damage dice for that.

I've never been a fan of pacifist PCs, so the tranquil monk isn't my cup of tea. I understand others may feel differently though.

 

[Flamestrike]

I've only seen your bonus action unarmed attack and Flurry of blows being affected by this, and I would imagine both of those was intentional. Nothing says you can't still use those abilities, you just can't be wielding a Kensei weapon when you do it. The monk is the only class that gets to make two full attacks at level 1 without feats. It balances a little bit for damage because the weapons used aren't going to be with a weapon die bigger the a d8. Again, you're trading frequency of attacks for more powerful attacks.

Your unarmed damage also drops to 1+Str on any round you wield your Kensai weapon (unless its a shortsword). You lose access to martial arts (and its bonus damage die, ability to substitute dex for str and the bonus action attack) as soon as you start wielding a non Monk weapon.

Heck its doubtful the +2 to AC thing is worth it. Is getting +2 to AC from a weapon (arguably youre parrying and crap with it to get the bonus) wielding it?

If it is, enjoy your +2 to AC because your damage just dropped to 1+ Str this round, you lose your bonus action attack via martial arts, and everything defaults back to Str.

 

[Leatherhead]

I've only seen your bonus action unarmed attack and Flurry of blows being affected by this, and I would imagine both of those was intentional.

You missed the part where they get a +2 bonus on AC when they use Unarmed Strikes and a Kensei weapon. Unarmed Strikes don't benefit from Martial Arts if you are wielding a non-Monk weapon, and that can't be intentional.

 

[hejtmane]

Certainly true, but can that unarmed strike be a Martial arts or flurry of blows attack if you are wielding a greatsword as a kensei weapon?

Nothing I have read in the article that says you can not use your bonus action for flurry of blows instead of pummel. So two sword attacks + flurry of blows gets you extra damage and +2ac

 

[Flamestrike]

You missed the part where they get a +2 bonus on AC when they use Unarmed Strikes and a Kensei weapon. Unarmed Strikes don't benefit from Martial Arts if you are wielding a non-Monk weapon, and that can't be intentional.

Its just silly how they did it. If they wanted to limit damage (while scaling) do this:


Path of the Kensei (3rd level):

When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn to extend your knowledge of the martial arts beyond the standard array of monk weapons.

Select one martial or simple weapon without the Heavy quality, other than the lance. This weapon is now treated as a Monk weapon for you. In addition, when you attack with the weapon you chose with this ability, you may replace the weapon damage die with 1d10 unless the weapon also has the reach quality. At 11th level in this class, the increased damage die increases to 2d6. At 17th level in this class it increases to 2d8.

In addition chose one of the following options:

1) Fighting style: Select one of the Archery, Dueling or Great weapon fighting styles.
2) Dual weapon kata: When you are not wearing armor or using a shield, and wield two Monk weapons at the same time, you gain +1 to AC.


Youre already (at 3rd level) dealing 1d8 damage with a spear or staff as an OHM/ Elements monk (with a bonus action attack from martial arts). The above ability just increases it to 1d10 (while retaining the bonus action martial arts attack).

Its 1 extra point of damage per round. Compared to OHM shennanigans at this level its weak. Hence why I added the F/S in (which also allows for different style of Kensai/ Zen archers)

As the weapon damage increases as you level, you're still lagging behind fighters (when it scales to 2d6 at 11th, they're getting 3 weapon attacks per round; six if they action surge, and likely more from bonus action cleaves and the like, plus extra damage from sup dice and explanded crit range).

Plus the above ability precludes the use of Heavy weapons (so no GWM for you Monk)

 

[Flamestrike]

Nothing I have read in the article that says you can not use your bonus action for flurry of blows instead of pummel. So two sword attacks + flurry of blows gets you extra damage and +2ac

Flurry of blows when you weild a Kensai weapon other than the shortsword, grants 2 attacks each dealing dealing [1+Str damage].

Which seeing as you probably dumped Strength, is a really poor investment of Ki.

Its a dainty wuss-slap on each of your opponents cheeks at best.

 

[Thurmas]

Your unarmed damage also drops to 1+Str on any round you wield your Kensai weapon (unless its a shortsword). You lose access to martial arts (and its bonus damage die, ability to substitute dex for str and the bonus action attack) as soon as you start wielding a non Monk weapon.

Heck its doubtful the +2 to AC thing is worth it. Is getting +2 to AC from a weapon (arguably youre parrying and crap with it to get the bonus) wielding it?

If it is, enjoy your +2 to AC because your damage just dropped to 1+ Str this round, you lose your bonus action attack via martial arts, and everything defaults back to Str.

The Path of the Kensei ability in the UA gives you the ability to still use your Dex or Str for Kensie weapons, and you can still choose to use the Monk weapon die, so you keep all those. Its only the unarmed strike bonus action and Flurry of Blows that are affected, as I mentioned earlier.

 

[Flamestrike]

The Path of the Kensei ability in the UA gives you the ability to still use your Dex or Str for Kensie weapons, and you can still choose to use the Monk weapon die,

No you dont. You use the Monk damage die for your Kensai weapon, but it doesnt become a Monk weapon.

So while you use your Kensai weapon, you lose access to your martial arts class feature.

The instant you use your Kensai weapon, you lose your bonus action martial arts attack, your damage dice when unarmed or using other monk weapons drops to 1 (or the base damage of the weapon) and you have to use Strength for these attacks.

The only exception is if you choose the Shortsword as your kensai weapon. The shortsword is also a monk weapon, so you get to retain your martial arts ability as long as you use it.

A Kensai that picks a longsword (katana) as his Kensai weapon, and wields it, loses access to martial arts for as long as he does so.

 

[Thurmas]

Here's how I'm seeing it.

Open Hand Monk vs Kensei 5th level (we'll assume +5 dex, no feats for now)

Open hand makes 4 attacks, 2 with staff, 2 with flurry, for 2d8+2d6+20. They also get the Open hand optional effects with the Flurry of Blows attacks

Kensei using a greatsword/maul makes 2 attacks and pummels, for 4d6+10+1d4


Add feats, Open Hand stays the same

Kensei uses GWM and we'll assume hits 4d6+30+1d4 clearly taking the lead.

Polearm is even better potentially, because you can replace the bonus attack.


Now let's jump to level 17, no feats

Open Hand can flurry for 4d10+20

Kensei 4d6+16+1d4


GWM stills wins out though, getting 4d6+36+1d4

Polearm is actually worse, unless you also have GWM.


So, the only way Kensei gets better damage on a burst is to grab Great Weapon, otherwise the other monks end up with better damage over all, and if you've taken this sub-class I'd assume your intentions are to get better damage. And in fact, the only wayto out compete the monks normal non-ki spending damage is to use a weapon that has a 1d10 or higher damage die, because monks generally can use 1d8 weapons, meaning a longsword wielding monk is just as good as a staff monk, unless they are using two hands, until the point where the bonus attack from martial arts beats out the 1d4 from pummel... which is really early in the monks career, as I will gladly go for 1d6+mod on a roll before a 1d4 on a roll (because the weapon attack still has to hit)

The Kensei's only advantage for flexibility seems to come from shortsword wielding, and it only gives an AC bonus, which I have never seen be an issue with monks. Every monk I have ever DM'd for very quickly had a AC of 18 or higher, and the ability to Dodge as a bonus if they felt threatened.

So, you lose out on damage unless you take two of the most often complained about feats in the game, and you don't really seem to gain much beyond accuracy on hitting and adding to your armor class.

I didn't go through all your math there point by point, but did you include Sharpen the Blade extra damage in the extra attack for Polearm Master? It looks like you did for the other regular attacks.


I will say, the most exciting part of all of this for me is being able to use a Naginata as a viable weapon now. Not something you could do before with a Monk.

 

[Flamestrike]

Compare to my version of the same ability:

Path of the Kensei (3rd level):

When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn to extend your knowledge of the martial arts beyond the standard array of monk weapons.

Select one martial or simple weapon without the Heavy quality, other than the lance. This weapon is now treated as a Monk weapon for you.

In addition, unless the weapon has the reach quality, when you attack with the weapon you chose with this ability you may replace the weapon damage die with 1d10. At 11th level in this class, this damage increases to 2d6. At 17th level in this class it increases to 2d8.

Finally, choose one of the following options:

1) Fighting style: Select one of the Archery, Dueling or Great weapon fighting styles.
2) Dual weapon kata: When you are not wearing armor or using a shield, and wield two Monk weapons at the same time, you gain +1 to AC.

Much clearer.

 

[Flamestrike]

I will say, the most exciting part of all of this for me is being able to use a Naginata as a viable weapon now. Not something you could do before with a Monk.

Re-fluffed spear.

Also used for the lajatang, or any other pointy/ sharp pole monk weapon.