I know this might be a bit of a necro but I got half way through reading this thread last night before going to sleep.
I wanted to share my interpretation of the Kensei Monk because I'm really excited at the prospect of playing this in an up coming game but at the same time want to clear any misconceptions on it that I or the my DM might have.
First up this is a long post as I’ve really spent some time considering this subclass.
I also agree that the use of the word “Kensei” leaves for a lot of head scratching and a few of it's abilities could have been worded better to avoid this but c'est la vie.
I'm going to break down a few things and please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, as I’ve just started with 5e earlier in the year and the last time I played before then was 2002-2003 area
Monks of the Way of Kensei train relentlessly with their weapons, to the point that the weapon becomes like an extension of the body. A Kensei sees a weapon in much the same way a painter regards a brush or a writer sees parchment, ink, and quill. A sword or bow is a tool used to express the beauty and elegance of the martial arts. That such mastery makes a Kensei a peerless warrior is but a side effect of intense devotion, practice, and study.
I bolded the first part to emphasis the fact that Kensei are still monks, no surprise but I‘m getting the feeling that a lot of people are seeing Kensei as no longer monks and as such their weapons aren't Monk weapons. I think it is important to point this out because my guess is that the game designers were trying to prevent the following from taking place.
Monk A (Kensei): is in a party declares that a great sword or long sword a Kensei weapon, thus making it a monk weapon.
Monk B (Way of the Shadow): Wants to use a great sword or long sword but doesn’t want to because it isn't a "Monk Weapon" and would be very sub-optimal. But if he/she can get Monk A’s declared Kensei Monk weapon then profit.
Now what I see here is while the Kensei are subclass of Monk, so are it's weapons a subclass of Monk Weapons. The difference here is that by declaring it a Kensei Weapon it locks out other subclasses from getting their hands on the thing that sets Kensei apart from other monks. And this brings me to why I'm making this statement.
Path of the Kensei
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn to extend your knowledge of the martial arts beyond the standard array of monk weapons.
You are augmenting the list of usable monk weapons by having the Kensei subclass weapons. If this wasn’t the case there would be no point to the martial weapon options and you should just go short swords and swap their die out as you level. The goal here is to give the starting some more options and flavour.
*Edit*
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/808505215963918338
The above makes me sad while the class is still completely playable removing flurry of blows is depressing.
Moving on though because I’m confused on something I’ve been reading, and I’ve seen this mentioned a few times.
When you take the Attack action on your turn and hit a target with a Kensei weapon, you can use a bonus action to pummel the target, dealing an additional 1d4 bludgeoning damage to that target and to any other target you hit with the weapon as part of the Attack.
I’ve read a few times people say that if you attack multiple different targets you can make this bonus attack on all of targets. So if I attack 2 targets I can apply the pummel to both targets? The way I read this is that it sounds like it applies to the first attack no all attack and as such it would only apply to first target it as you can only use 1 bonus action to initiate this pummel attack. But it also reads like yes you could hit all the targets if you some how did splash damage(?) at which point it is absolutely insane.
*Addition* Because I found the tweet. The fact this D4 doesn't scale at all is rather bad over all when losing flurry of blows which is 2D10 at later levels. Even at early level 2d4 + DEX is better than bludgeoning.
I like the Kensei monk but this just feels like a bit of undermining on the class.
Also I ask if this is the correct way of using pummel as I’m not sure how this bonus action is working. Is it an auto hit or do I have to roll;
1d20 + Dex + Prof then 1d4+ Dex for damage
I know for polearm masters pummel attack you can add the STR modifier to the bludgeoning part of the attack but not sure if you have to roll the D20 as well on its bonus attack
(clearing this up would be awesome thanks!)
But a couple ending notes, I think this sub class is amazing but will be something people really have to manage a little more than most.
As the total amount of possible bonus actions are incredibly high and depending on your build you could tap your key out in almost 1 round at early mid levels.
Here is an example I've been tossing around in my head.
Dual Weapons (Sharpen Blade 3 ki x 2 weapons = 6 ki), Stunning Strike attempts (4 Ki), so at monk level 11 player level 13 assuming 2 fighter levels, you will have 1 ki points left. But an additional 4AC, +1 AC from Blade Mastery (UA Feat) , +1 from Dual Wielder, +2 from Class bonus.
Damage looks like, you need to use the Sharpen Blade on the round before this as it takes a bonus action to apply. (corrected an issue with the dType)
1D8 + Dex + 3
1D8 + Dex + 3
1D8 + Dex +3 (Action Surge Used)
1D6 + Dex (Unarmed Strike to trigger +2 AC)
1D8 + Dex +3 (Bonus Action)
Assume Parrying stance (+1 AC)
If you have Magic Initiate, take Hex and add 1d6 to each hit, extra glory if you crit the target because Hex gets to crit as well. BBEG is gonna likely feel this set of hits, as you will also have +4 to attack rolls. You can also swap your bonus action out instead of a weapon attack use the bonus action to do flurry of blows. Gives + 1dX and +1d6 just remember if you go this route at level 11 Monk, 2 Fighter, you have will still use a lot of ki. If you aren’t going to do the stunning strikes you have just a few ki points left till your next short rest.
This is of course one conceivable way to play this Monk another could be as followed.
If you were to deem a Glaive/Halberd a Kensei weapon(Naginata), and use the UA Tunnel Fighter Stance, with Polearm Master and Sentinel. You now have massive zone control Monk. Combine this with Great Weapon Master with this and wreak havoc.
I like to play monk as Variant Human when I can and I usually limit my self to 3 feats as the Monk is MAD. But if you want to trim it down there are other options of course.
I think what I like about the Kensei monk is the large number new options that open up and unique options to take advantage of it field control. If you want to use it as a light offense while providing zone control you can. Want to go all ham sure try it. I think it also gives more feat options which I personally enjoy a lot.
Feats -These are all interesting to me in various uses as they are all dependent on other variables
Alert – Increases to initiative is huge in my books kill the target(s) to mitigate damage or on the BBEG stun them and slow them down for your team mates.
Observant – 1 wisdom and passive perception is cool
Sentinel – Nice for that zone control
Mobile – more zip zip around the field and when you smack a group of mobs a free disengage
Charger – I like the extra bang attack of +5 and given monks movement not hard to take advantage of
Magic Initiate – Because Hex is crazy
Polearm Master – Opportunity attacks are nice and zone control
Blade Mastery (UA Feat) – If you want to go swords be sure to consider this
Dual Wielder - Because +1 ac, dual long swords, whats not to really like with the buffs you can give these blades.
Cheers and thanks for sticking through to the end, any comments or feed back would be greatly appreciated!
