UA Monks Introduces the Kensai and Tranquility Traditions

The Kensei was pretty much exactly how I expected/wanted it to be. With the exception of the bludgeoning damage. A d4 that doesn't scale? I hate d4s, and especially at higher levels it's hardly worth anything. Especially since as a monk, I could just use my bonus action to make an unarmed attack and use monk damage dice for that.

I've never been a fan of pacifist PCs, so the tranquil monk isn't my cup of tea. I understand others may feel differently though.

 

[BookBarbarian]

On the Kensei:

What I like: Kensei lets me play a both the Greatsword monk and the Longbow monk. I could even be a 1d12 longsword monk. That has some appeal to me.
What I don't like: Kensei weapons not being monk weapons, I shouldn't lose access to all the monk goodies that require me to not be wielding a non monk weapon to be able to use my Kensei weapon. It trades to much of the base class features to use the subclass features. I don't want to juggle weapons.

On the Tranquility monk:

I think it looks interesting. No complaints.

 

[Ovarwa]

Correct. But my beef is that monks use bonus actions about every round. Taking away a bonus action that would normally be an unarmed attack, dodge, or move further to get that extra d4, I'm not sure is really worth it, imo. And cuz d4s...

Oh, it's usually very much not worth it. +2.5 damage per target? Meh. Since it isn't an attack, weapon bonus doesn't add either.

 

[bganon]

Yeah, on further reading the Kensei depends critically on how you interpret the Martial Arts requirement to be "unarmed or wielding only monk weapons".

Note that the "defense" Kensei option only requires you to "hold" the kensei weapon.

So, if wielding is not the same as holding, then perhaps a level 5 Monk can:
* Make first attack "wielding" the kensei weapon
* Switch to "holding" the kensei weapon, which (maybe?) turns Martial Arts back on
* Make unarmed attack (with Dex and Martial Arts die)
* gain +2 AC

This seems like an excessively lawyerly reading of the rules, but the feature seems to suck otherwise...

 

[MechaPilot]

Another thing that sits weird with me is precise strike. IME playing monks (one of my favorite classes), is that you're pretty much doing a bonus action every turn. Moreso than probably any other class. So many monk abilities are tied to bonus actions.

So giving up an extra attack, dodge, or movement to get double prof on one hit that can only be used once per short/long rest? Kinda meh to me, to be honest. Hitting monsters isn't too terribly hard, so what's the math trade off between attacking twice at normal prof bonus, or attacking only once with double prof bonus?

I can't speak to the default, but at my table this would be huge. I often let players attempt things as riders to attacks, hinging success on beating the target's AC by 5 or more.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Yeah, on further reading the Kensei depends critically on how you interpret the Martial Arts requirement to be "unarmed or wielding only monk weapons".

Note that the "defense" Kensei option only requires you to "hold" the kensei weapon.

So, if wielding is not the same as holding, then perhaps a level 5 Monk can:
* Make first attack "wielding" the kensei weapon
* Switch to "holding" the kensei weapon, which (maybe?) turns Martial Arts back on
* Make unarmed attack (with Dex and Martial Arts die)
* gain +2 AC

This seems like an excessively lawyerly reading of the rules, but the feature seems to suck otherwise...

Maybe the intent is to have to make both attacks that turn as unarmed strikes? I could still see that working for me as long as I don't have to sheath my Kensei weapon to do it.

 

[bganon]

Maybe the intent is to have to make both attacks that turn as unarmed strikes? I could still see that working for me as long as I don't have to sheath my Kensei weapon to do it.

Maybe - it still relies on being picky about the distinction between holding a weapon and wielding it. Martial Arts just doesn't work if you "wield" a martial weapon, and without it unarmed strikes are STR-based and do one point of damage.

I mean, I'd be tempted to just rule that kensei weapons count as monk weapons for the purpose of Martial Arts. But then the d4 "pummel" doesn't seem to make much sense - I think the Martial Arts bonus unarmed strike is almost always better.

 

[MechaPilot]

The way I read the kensei ability, the three martial weapons you choose to gain proficiency with basically become Martial Arts Weapons for you. Otherwise why allow the choice of Str or Dex in attack and damage rolls, and why allow the substitution of the martial arts damage dice.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Maybe - it still relies on being picky about the distinction between holding a weapon and wielding it. Martial Arts just doesn't work if you "wield" a martial weapon, and without it unarmed strikes are STR-based and do one point of damage.

I mean, I'd be tempted to just rule that kensei weapons count as monk weapons for the purpose of Martial Arts. But then the d4 "pummel" doesn't seem to make much sense - I think the Martial Arts bonus unarmed strike is almost always better.

Yeah no disagreement here. Weapon juggling between Kensai weapon features and Martial arts features just doesn't do it for me. If they get these things ironed out I would really like this sublcass.

 

[Fritzo]

I've been wanting a Kensei since the playtest of 5th edition. Yet I find myself completely unimpressed.

First of all, being able to use any weapon as a dexterity weapon may be too powerful, but part of the problem is the new terminology.

This martial weapon is a Kensei Weapon, not a monk weapon, does this mean you don't get any of the benefits of Martial Arts while wielding it? If it does, then all of your unarmed strike abilities are worthless, because you are hitting with str+mod and 1 damage.

If the Kensei Weapon is a monk weapon, then pummel is nearly useless, as it is only +1d4 damage, unmodified by anything. The only advantage of it is using your bonus action to automatically hit, but by higher levels you could be hitting for 1d8+5 instead of a flat 1d4.

If it isn't a Monk Weapon, then it also makes the ability to get +2 AC nearly worhtless, because again, attacking with unarmed strikes is a very bad idea when you lose all your normal bonuses.


So, the advantage is getting a 1d10 polearm or one of the heavy weapons like the greataxe and using them with Finesse as a monk. After all, the staff already did 1d8, so you need to be looking for a 1d10 or higher weapon die to increase your damage.

I think Chaos hit the nail on the head. I reread the rules and the problem is this little part of the Martial Arts feature:

You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:

Completely destroys any synergy when using unarmed attacks between the base class and the subclass. It wouldn't allow a bonus action unarmed attack but would allow the use of flurry of blows but at 1+strength mod, why bother. Plus what you've already listed above in Way of the Kensei.

They should either make it a monk weapon or completely rethink how it's written. This and the fighter archetype felt very sloppy trying to read. I trust that they'll fix these things before they're added to any future books.

 

[hejtmane]

Maybe the intent is to have to make both attacks that turn as unarmed strikes? I could still see that working for me as long as I don't have to sheath my Kensei weapon to do it.

Unarmed attack can be a kick even states that in phb

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