Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Mass Combat

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/2017_UAMassCombat_MCUA_v1.pdf

I wasn't expecting an article today...looks like a rehash of the old Mass Combat rules.

I was really hoping for the Mystic....

Pretty radically different from the previous attempt, much more abstract and fast paced; which is good, because it has been gestating for two years!
[MENTION=697]mearls[/MENTION] has been talking up various DM options in the works; looks like those will get the exposure for a little bit, now.

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[TerraDave]

Pros:

-Can handle really big armies

Cons:

-way too abstract with to little differentiation between unit capabilities outside mobility and unable to accommodate classic troop types like horse archers
-the guidance for PCs is too loose. I think I see how it is supposed to work, but could easily break down in play as written

I would prefer something that built a little more directly on unit capabilities and was clearer (and did not refer back to the mob-rules in the DMG) on how PCs interacted with units.

 

[Lidgar]

I got same issue here.

400 veteran, CR 3, BR 400 x 2BR = 800
vs
100 hill giant, CR 5, BR 100 x 4BR = 400

Hill giants cannot even damage the veterans unit.
Nice if you want to make a remake of the "300" movie.

Work as intended?

Can you even have 100 hill giants in a unit? They are Huge, so I think you can only have (400/9) 44? See the Creating Units section. So their BR would be 44 x 4 = 176.

 

[Anakzar]

I really think they miss the mark with dragons in pretty much every edition of dnd. Dragons should be, but aren't, something truly epic. At least there should be Great Dragons or something that are something that is more like fighting a group of power creatures than a single creature, or something. Legendary Actions help a bit, but not enough.

I agree, they need attacks that can hit several targets at once in addition to the breath weapon. Also truly powerful ancient dragons should be immune to normal weapons like non-magical arrows and swords etc. So that a town of regular folk would be totally at its mercy and need PCs with their magic to defend it.

 

[TerraDave]

F the what? I don't want to take away anything from the rest of you, but why would I ever want mass combat rules for an RPG?

When you are at a point in the campaign where a mass combat is taking place, and you want to the PCs to play a meaningful part in it.

BUT sure, the DM can hand wave that like they can hand wave anything and everything. They can just have a part the PCs fight in and figure out how that effects the whole battle, if at all.

So, back to your question. You want explicit rules if 1) you will ever have clashing armies or equivalent involving the PCs; 2) you really want to be clear that one side or another can win and that the PCs are influencing that, typically both as heroes and commanders; 3) you want it to feel like a mass battle, at least given all the constraints of a 5e tabletop session.

I feel like these are weakest for 3. It does not really differentiate between troops that are hard to kill vs troops with special power vs troops with amazing attacks. They are all sort of lumped together. And the role of the PCs is still fuzzy.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

Initiative = 10 + unit morale rating + commander’s Charisma modifier

IMO, it should be the commander's [Intelligence or Wisdom modifier], since Charisma already covers morale, and the timing of tactics should be affected by the commander's grasp of a situation.

 

[Yunru]

Horse archers just plain don't work. Horses don't have ranged attacks.

 

[Valdier]

I got same issue here.

400 veteran, CR 3, BR 400 x 2BR = 800
vs
100 hill giant, CR 5, BR 100 x 4BR = 400

Hill giants cannot even damage the veterans unit.
Nice if you want to make a remake of the "300" movie.

Work as intended?

I feel like this should be the Average CR of the unit makes up it's BR, but that has problems also... it's doesn't account for volume at all.

 

[RSIxidor]

I'm not sure I like the opposed rolls for determining combat; seems a bit swingy to me and adds too many die rolls. I'm sure there's probably a way to simplify it.

I do like the concepts they are laying out, though.

I agree about the opposed rolls. I think only the defender should roll, with some DC set by the attackers stats.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Horse archers just plain don't work. Horses don't have ranged attacks.

No, no, you've misunderstood. A horse archer is a human who pulls back hard on the horse and then releases it so it launches a projectile.

Or is it a bow that launches horses? I always get those two confused...

 

[Krachek]

Can you even have 100 hill giants in a unit? They are Huge, so I think you can only have (400/9) 44? See the Creating Units section. So their BR would be 44 x 4 = 176.

I miss the Huge. I'm still with Large of previous edition.
But the situation gets worse for Hill giant. BR 44 x 4 = 177