Upper Deck sues Ravensburger over the Disney Lorcana card game.

[Bacon Bits]

Not a lawyer, but I did dig into this. The issue at hand is that the lead designer of Lorca had worked at Upper Deck before changing companies, and there is a distinct possibility that he may have taken ideas for all upcoming game with him. Dunno if it will hold up, but it seems it may have enough merit that a settlement is likely.

I would absolutely believe this is some unreasonable or underhanded operation on Upper Deck's part. Neither Sean K Reynolds nor Patrick Sullivan had anything but horror stories from their time at that company.

 

[Dire Bare]

Fewer people are buying more cards, and WotC is printing more cards than before. Hasbro has been targeting whales rather than the broader audience.

"10,498 card variations were printed [in 2022]: 14.7% of all cards in Magic history [up to that point]":

WotC is definitely targeting "whales", one of the reasons there is growing upset amongst the fanbase, including myself.

But are fewer people buying more cards? I'd love to see some data on this. WotC is targeting whales, but WotC is not ONLY targeting whales.

 

[Bacon Bits]

WotC is definitely targeting "whales", one of the reasons there is growing upset amongst the fanbase, including myself.

But are fewer people buying more cards? I'd love to see some data on this. WotC is targeting whales, but WotC is not ONLY targeting whales.

I don't have that data, upthread people are saying that Magic sales are growing while the game is shrinking. We already know that Bank of America downgraded Hasbro partially because of overprinting Magic. The unique card variations number show just how much collectors need to put in. There are only so many conditions that fit those facts.

The other alternative is that all their competitors are expanding the market, while Magic only capitalizes on the existing market. But that's just a different way to say the same thing.

 

[Dire Bare]

I don't have that data, upthread people are saying that Magic sales are growing while the game is shrinking. We already know that Bank of America downgraded Hasbro partially because of overprinting Magic. The unique card variations number show just how much collectors need to put in. There are only so many conditions that fit those facts.

The other alternative is that all their competitors are expanding the market, while Magic only capitalizes on the existing market. But that's just a different way to say the same thing.

Heh, I'm not telling you Magic is growing while the game is shrinking, that's another poster. I'm trying to refute that. I don't believe the game is shrinking.

Are some fans upset with the direction of the game? Sure, myself included. Are some fans pulling away from the hobby, in part or in whole? Sure, I'm personally purchasing less.

Is it possible the game is growing, sales are growing, but that the growth is ultimately unsustainable and will lead to a "Magic bubble", causing BofA to downgrade Hasbro? That's my belief, but I don't think Magic's upcoming "bubble" is a sure thing by any means.

 

[Scribe]

Is it possible the game is growing, sales are growing, but that the growth is ultimately unsustainable and will lead to a "Magic bubble", causing BofA to downgrade Hasbro? That's my belief, but I don't think Magic's upcoming "bubble" is a sure thing by any means.

All I know, is that when I take a quick look, the prices on things that used to hold value within the MTG space, have cratered. Over printed, or no longer desired, or both, or neither I dont know.

 

[MoonSong]

@Dire Bare just this weekend the vintage sealed and vintage singles market collapsed. Too many people are selling their collections at once. There aren't enough buyers to take all of that.

 

[Dire Bare]

@Dire Bare just this weekend the vintage sealed and vintage singles market collapsed. Too many people are selling their collections at once. There aren't enough buyers to take all of that.

Not trying to dispute your claim here, but again, a source would be nice. But the collector's market is not the same as the player base, although they are of course related.

WotC doesn't care about the secondary market, nor should they, they only care about how many people are playing and purchasing new product.

If the collector's market is collapsing, that isn't a good sign. It may mean that the "Magic bubble" is here or close . . . but I would be more interested in how the pre-release of the new Middle-Earth set does this weekend. If sales of the new set are weak, that would be a more clear sign to me that Magic is beginning to struggle.

 

[MoonSong]

Not trying to dispute your claim here, but again, a source would be nice. But the collector's market is not the same as the player base, although they are of course related.

WotC doesn't care about the secondary market, nor should they, they only care about how many people are playing and purchasing new product.

If the collector's market is collapsing, that isn't a good sign. It may mean that the "Magic bubble" is here or close . . . but I would be more interested in how the pre-release of the new Middle-Earth set does this weekend. If sales of the new set are weak, that would be a more clear sign to me that Magic is beginning to struggle.

I'd expect the new set to sell well. It is like with the WH40K decks. It appeals to people outside the game. Some of the things they are doing are cool with the set, besides -you know- greed and lust for being the one to open the one ring. And well, whales will be whales. The problem isn't new sets not selling, but less people buying the sets and more people selling out their collections because they stopped playing entirely, which is what is happening right now.

 

[Dire Bare]

I'd expect the new set to sell well. It is like with the WH40K decks. It appeals to people outside the game. Some of the things they are doing are cool with the set, besides -you know- greed and lust for being the one to open the one ring. And well, whales will be whales. The problem isn't new sets not selling, but less people buying the sets and more people selling out their collections because they stopped playing entirely, which is what is happening right now.

I'm not much of a collector, and I'm interested in the new set! Both because I'm a Magic player and fan, but also a Lord of the Rings fan. I'm not alone. The new set is not just aimed at folks who don't play Magic and only collect, those "outside" the game. Same with the earlier Warhammer 40K release . . . that was aimed at both players and collectors, those who are fans of both Magic and Warhammer.

I firmly reject the idea that these sets are only for collectors, those "outside" the game. I also reject the idea that these sets are only for "whales", players/collectors who like to spend big money on fancy cards and accessories.

WotC is definitely targeting "whales" increasingly with each set release, and their "Universes Beyond" releases are definitely targeting non-Magic players . . . with the intent of hopefully turning them into Magic players!!!

Your claim is that despite strong sales, less people are playing the game itself. Right? Do you have a source beyond your own anecdotal experience? This doesn't ring true for me based on what I've read about the game and in my own anecdotal experience. The facts don't match the claim, at least from my perspective.

I'm not saying WotC's current approach to Magic isn't without problems. It certainly might lead to the game actually losing players and sales . . . but I don't see that as a given, and I don't see that happening right now.