Use of Spellcraft skill

[Wanderer20]

Does a successful Spellcraft check reveal the name and/or the effects of a spell that is not in the spell list of the guy that made the check?

For instance, if a cleric sees a Magic Missile (a Sor/Wiz spell not in the Cleric list) and makes the required check to identify it, what does he understand? The name of the spell, the damage dices, the level of the spell, which spell lists comprehend it, whether it has a ST or not...what?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

There are two ways of doing this, with the understanding that in either case, it doesn't matter whether or not the spell is on your list or even if you have a list.

1) When you successfully make your Spellcraft roll, you're told the spell's name. Anything beyond that, you're expected to know or figure out on your own (or look up). In the above case, you'd be told, "Magic Missile."

2) When you successfully make your Spellcraft roll, you're given enough information about the spell that you could figure out its name. Thus, for the MM spell in question, you'd be told, "It's a minor Evocation which causes missiles of pure force to strike a target unerringly."

For experienced players or common spells, the two are interchangeable.

For inexperienced players or uncommon spells, the second tends to provide more information.

 

[Thanee]

Yes, you can identify other classes' spells just normal.

Makes you wonder, with the penalty specialist wizards get, a different class list ought to have some penalty as well, but there is none that I know of.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Wanderer20]

Thanks for the feedback.

What if the identified spell is a new spell created by that particular mage and only him knows it? To tell the player its name would be like telling him nothing; I could give him the info Patryn wrote in the option #2, but I don't know whether it'd be telling too much or too few.

(we play in an oriental campaign where every single wu jen creates a wide array of new spells, so understanding the enemy's technique can be the difference among life or death; ooohh, it's so orientally cool ^_^)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well, in that, case, they should at least get a school and a spell level.

Beyond that, if it's similar to a spell they already know, describe it like that:

"It's a moderately powerful Evocation; it's most similar to your own 'Rain of Firey Needles' spell, except the wu jen casting it seems to be drawing on the elemental forces of wood and air, rather than wood and fire."

The really important part of being able to identify spells by name is that if you can't, you can't effectively counterspell anything.

 

[Wanderer20]

Nice suggestion, thank you

 

[atom crash]

I tend to use the "unfavorable circumstance" penalty of -2 to the roll (actually I just raise the DC by 2 and leave the roll unaffected) in cases where the spell being identified is unfamilliar to the person using Spellcraft. This would hold for cases in which the spell is one he'd never have seen before because it's new or because it's from a prohibited school or not on his spell list or whatever. I also use this modifier if the caster uses a different type of magic (i.e. arcane and divine).

 

[taliesin15]

Wow. Glad I looked at this thread. I have oodles of spells created that nobody has cast in centuries and stuff like that. I think Patryn is on the right track here, with a basic technical description...still, I wonder as a DM whether its fair to say something like "this spell does a combination of this spell and that, and the combined effect is unknown..."

 

[Saeviomagy]

Really, spellcraft's only use is to give information about spells.

If you suddenly decide that it gives no information about spells, then I think you're being petty. I'd ask you if you'd also decided that tumble didn't make you avoid AoOs, or jump didn't actually let you leap into the air.

That's the sort of thing you're doing if you give useless information for spellcraft (or ANY of the knowledge skills).

You're saying "In my campaign, this skill is useless, and you're a fool for taking it".

 

[apesamongus]

Really, spellcraft's only use is to give information about spells.

Well, apart from wizards learning spells, the main function of Spellcraft is to allow for counterspelling. So, if the spell is one the character doesn't know (because it's unique to the caster) and/or isn't on his spell list, it's pretty worthless even if you hand the spell description over to the player and let them read it.