Vampire ?'s

[Mordane76]

Except that it lowers the power of a feared monster in D&D -- if a "critical hit" on a vampire with a stake impales it through the heart, then we'll have stake-wielding psychoes everywhere. It's more in flavor with d20 Modern, especially considering that d20 Modern appears to have taken a more Buffy approach to vampires, with stakes turning them to dust and all. In D&D, I think that staking needs to be a bit more difficult, especially since it doesn't necessarily kill the vampire (just incapacitates them until the stake is removed).

 

[kreynolds]

Except that it lowers the power of a feared monster in D&D...

I don't think it lowers it at all. A vampire, as powerful and hard to kill as it is (if properly played by the DM), has a rediculously low CR modifier of only +2. Being able to instantly kill it with a single crit wielding a wooden stake actually justifies such a low CR modifier. The vampire template is pretty poorly fleshed out in regards to how exactly, in rules terms, you are supposed to kill them. All this is just my opinion though.

 

[Mordane76]

And I would tend to agree that the mechanics are poorly fleshed out in MM for the vampire. I also agree that's its more powerful than its CR adjustment dictates. I guess it boils down to which way you want to go -->

Go Lower: Institute the d20 Modern mechanic, hence the low CR.
Maintenance: Develop a called shot mechanic for vampires being staked, and leave the only temporary death effect intact.

 

[kreynolds]

Maintenance: Develop a called shot mechanic for vampires being staked, and leave the only temporary death effect intact.

...and raise its CR.

 

[Mordane76]

Yes... and raise its CR.

 

[DM_Matt]

Remember that there is only a 5% chance, generally speaking, of a killer staking. The drawback of using a stake is that it is an substandard weapon for anytihng else (1d4, 20/x2) and unless you are playing a character specializing in just killing vamps, your char is not going to have Weapon Focus/Spec or Imp Crit/Power Crit with it or it being magical.

Then again, this makes Buffy-types potentially VERY strong. Keen stake, imp crit, and weapon master can bring the range to 18-20 and Power Crit will mean an instakill verses a vamp on a confirmation. Also, if you let stakes be thrown or shot from xbows, hunters mercy does that too.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Well, if you're that concerned about crowds of characters with Improved Critical for their keen stakes, nobody says you necessarily have to allow this tactic with metal-tipped weapons which happen to have wooden shafts. Unless you're using ironwood or something, wood is a pretty poor material to make a pointy weapon out of. The guidelines for primitive weapon materials in the Dungeon Master's Guide seem appropriate.

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

This may have been mentioned already, but I'm pretty sure that only slashing weapons can have the keen enchantment.

The most vampire fighting we did IMC was in a Dungeon adventure called "Dying of the Light". Very nasty one, too- there's seven high-level vampire NPCs and I don't know how many spawn (we just started throwing fireballs into rooms full of coffins and barring the doors). If I recall, the DM was allowing a stake through the heart only on a 20, and then the stake didn't kill the vampire, only paralyze it. Ordinarily, that's the same thing, but when there's a few other vampires trying to pull the stake out, then things get a bit more complicated.

I'd allow an Improved Crit with a stake if the player really wanted it. The only people who are going to take it are going to be undead hunter types anyway, since they're the only ones who will get enough use out of it to justify it as a feat. And, as DM_Matt pointed out, it's not going to be good for much else. Though I do like Doc's ironwood idea- finally, druids can get some respect from the undead!

 

[Dr_Rictus]

This may have been mentioned already, but I'm pretty sure that only slashing weapons can have the keen enchantment.

So the Dungeon Master's Guide says. The errata to that book say differently.

 

[Mordane76]

Like I said -- it feels good in the modern genre. I just think it's a little anti-climactic for a group of heroes to so easily dispatch vampires in D&D.

Must go to bed... wife saying bed... now.
Night all.