{Vampire: The Masquerade - OOC} New York by Night

[Krizzel]

Krizzel - I figured you might be over here as you seemed to be online at about the same times as me, and had similar access issues (possibly, probably not with hindsight).

I usually end up posting either late night or sometimes around midday, which would correspond to UK early moring and evening, so that probably explains that For access, I've no idea where ENWorld's server is, but I'd imagine it's possible that we share a common route to it. Connection for me has been slow over the past couple of days (though it seems pretty good at the moment). Sounds like you have more computer issues there than just that though (thankfully I've got a 6-month old computer and a cable modem).

 

[Vychtorya]

And very cool about your home town - ever get to see them play?

Yep - saw them with No Doubt a long time ago...Cake opened for No Doubt back when they had their horn section, dancing all over the place... great show.

 

[Catulle]

Well, there's a whole lot going on isn't there?

I'm about to bombard the thread with a point-to-point response to the enquiries I've had, which I estimate will take more than a few posts to resolve as I want to cover all of the concerns and questions you bring up. That done, I'll try to neaten up the IC thread to minimise future 'signal distortion'. Given the tendency of things to snowball, and I realise things may get heated, I'd appreciate if the more vehement responses were brought up with me in e-mail before public airing.

My work address (from about an hour ago to about seven hours from now, rinse and repeat daily) is barry.mcivor@nch.org.uk, please use it responsibly.

Regards,

Barry

 

[Catulle]

I'ld also like to say that Vychs... exit... has indeed had a few side effects. I'm going to assume, for now, that the Shock of the moment prevented anyone from responding, meaning that unless someone tells me otherwise, I'll be ignoring Shal's "YOU can't be mean to her" speech, and assuming she started yelling at Vychs back as she left or some such thing, or perhaps was just thinking that (Sorry Shal, I'm just really confused at how it's all working out).

I think that's a pretty sensible assessment; if it's okay with you, I'll do a final Jemal post that's reactive to the music room situation and that can loop back in to the narrative as stands and avoid bogging this down in ever-decreasing circles. As it stands, I'm finding that things have gotten rather labour-intensive of late...

Also Barry (Or anyone else who knows) could you post how much XP everyone has gained in total? I've counted up all the "XP point for people" I've seen, but I don't think My total's right.

Total XP earned to date stands at (I think, my game spreadsheet's on my home PC) 8 xp each, 9 for Sabrina, 0 (yet) for Kriang. As per usual, expenditure on the back of an e-mail to me.

Regards,

Barry

 

[reapersaurus]

Barry, I just saw you posted, with a request to not talk about it.
But I don't think that I should be gagged. I want to get across my impressions, and people can take them as they will...

For somethings though, like when it was just Saby and Cate, we were posting quite often back and forth, but that was ok for a few reasons. As far as we knew, we were the only two in the room, hence the only ones affected by our posts. The other reason it was ok, was because we were on IM discussing the scene, so we were going at a speed we were both comfortable with.

I really just want to avoid future issues, so maybe we could all vote and discuss this?

Well... since you asked...

I think it's ironic, and very instructive, that you think it was "OK" for Kitana to do (basically) EXACTLY what Vych did.

VERY instructive...

I'm not one to beat around the bush, as you can guess.
I believe that OOC play should stay in the OOC thread, unlike ya'll dragging things into the IC as has been done.

The "IC-scene dominatrixes" have a problem when someone dictates the outcome of a scene?
How ironic.
You guys do realize how dominating you've been in-character, right?
How difficult it looks to write in any scene where Sabrina and Caitlyn happen to be in the same room?
It reads silly, the obsession they have recently had with each other, and the way you guys jumped the gun and posted so many things, moving the action along while not waiting for anyone's input shows that you are both missing how your intense interplay is hedging out other players.

As I read it, Vych either had to accept her subservient, miniscule role you'd left for her in the scene, and be ultimately dismissed by Kitana, or she could post, and try to create some room for her character to play in.
She had already done the former, and it hadn't gone away, so she decided to try the latter approach.
________________________________
Personally, I think that most posting issues that boil down to "timing" can just be read thru, if you read between the lines, seeing the whole scene, and working the posts together.

It's inevitable that in this PbP medium that sometimes people's posts go "out of order" *gasp!*
Especially when 2 characters in the game get a tight relationship and advance their storyline faster than the pace of the Chronicle.

What would you have us all do?
Just sit back and continue to watch your interplay?
Why don't I pop some popcorn, while I'm at it?
"Welcome to yet ANOTHER installment of the Cait-n-Saby show!
When last we left our obsessive pair, they were doing the same thing they're doing now!
Tune in next week, when they dominate yet another scene!"

There's really no way that some "universal time limit for posting" is going to be able to dodge what happened:
You two in your own world.
And other people (at least Vych) on the outside, scrambling to stay up with your scene-setting actions.

But then again, what do I know - I just read when I can (I don't have time for 24 posts a day), and try to keep up after I come back from work and see yet MORE posts, stretching endlessly like a melodramatic director forcing me to read scripts.

So do yourself a favor, and ignore what I've written, and don't care about what I think.
Because it's obvious at this point that we are different people, and we like different things in a game, and I think that Catulle is damn good enough to wrangle our different styles together, and let us all get what we want out of the game.

So Happy Gaming, all, and continue doing Your Thang, if that floats your boat, and I hope Vych continues doing Her Thang.

 

[Catulle]

Ok, this is going to sound very confused, and slightly upset, but anyway, here goes.

That said, I'm probably going to be a little more blunt than I mean to be, simply because I don't want to risk misinterpretation. Please feel free, as ever, to air the gaffes with me over e-mail.

Vych I love that you are being assertive, I really truly do, and I am fine with the fact that you posted that Vych was upset and angry. Loved it, very good writing my compliments. I'm not upset with you Vych, not at all. It just seems Sabrina and Cate are being jerked around and ignored, and denied their fair chance to respond.

I suspect that much of this issue comes down to the timing issue that you identify in your second post, as well as other contributing factors I'll identify shortly.

The only thing I ask, is that since you went back a bit to reply, that we also be given that same chance. We are not just gonna be able to go on as we did before, because what vych did evoked a response, I know you wanted some conflict in there, so when we answer back, we need to have that chance. Kit and I both posted our responses that would take place before she left.

Its only fair that if we both react to what you did, that everyone respect that and reacts to our response, only fair. So what I would really like, is that our responses be reacted to. I am not editing my response again. I will say out of character that if she is ignored she will have a tantrum at the very least. Ignoring her is the worst thing you could do to Sabrina, ever.

When I indicate that I want to tidy up the IC thread and keep things moving, I'm talking about providing a reaction that won't cause the scene to continue to tailspin.

I can identify the source of the problem really pretty easily, and it's almost precisely what you indicate in that second post. Why it arose, I couldn't say, but the fact that this issue has come up (twice, as I recall) previously hints to me that we should know better than to fall into that trap by now.

A post which delineated other characters' actions and the continuation of posts in the assumption that no response by other characters in the scene would affect the outcome is basically where the mess started. We've seen it before with Vychtorya writing Carrick, and it was commented on then at length. We saw it more recently with Festy's effectively ending a minor scene and it was commented on again.

Essentially, by taking that course of action, I think that precisely the same things which you complain about were precipitated for other characters by the series of posts starting with Kit's stamped 03-18-2003 05:55 PM by my clock.

I tried to roll with that, letting some response go which I'm sure you would indicate is only fair, with the proviso that things be allowed to progress as smoothly as possible. Now, it seems to a part of me I don't really want to be listening to, that without a shutting down and cooling off period, we'll get trapped in an eternal circle of trying to get in the last word; I don't think that's good for the story...

I would say that by the way it was posted, there was ample time for Kit and Sabrina to respond IC as Vych spoke, turned, spoke to jemal, then walked across the room, then the doors closed. It wasn't all instantaneous. But not time enough for us to post.

I would ask that until Barry sorts this out, that Vych, Jemal, Kit and myself not post IC as it will only lead to more of a mess to sort out.

I think you hit the nail on the head here (I'm not convinced Caitlyn would be in a state to comment other than in by internal-monologue (which, reading it, is precisely what Kit's done. Cool)).

I must say that I had it framed with Cate and Sabrina in the room, and Jemal and Vychtorya in the doorway. Poor description on my part, I think, which I'll try to pay more attention to in the future.

Regards,

Barry

 

[Catulle]

Here is another thing that I think we all need to discuss out of character. Pacing of the game. For the most part the pacing of the game is great.

But I think some of the problems that have arisen recently are due to the varying speed of posting.

Agreed almost wholeheartedly from where I'm sitting.

We all need to allow enough time between posts to let the other people affected by our posts time to respond, we are all guilty of this to some degree, all of us, and I admit it myself. But we all need to leave a reasonable amount of time for the reactions of the others in the scene, or we run into problems.

Likewise, I can only voice my total support for this concept.

So the question is how long is a reasonable time to wait between posts to allow the other players to react. Personally I feel that 24 hours is a fine length of time to wait. We all seem to post once a day with the exclusion of one or 2 people, so thats fine. What does everyone else think is a reasonable amount of time?

I'm happy with whatever people are comfortable with, and I'll try to adjust my patterns to fit. Reaper doesn't post too frequently, Jemal's here and there and Ash has had his moments, too (not unfair, I hope). I haven't found this a problem so far since I've tried to alter my pace to match their expectations (though down the line, who knows). Perhaps if you're in a scene with other PCs likewise inclined, a time 'limit' (by which I read the chance to react before 'nothing' is the assumed (inter)action) may be useful?

For somethings though, like when it was just Saby and Cate, we were posting quite often back and forth, but that was ok for a few reasons. As far as we knew, we were the only two in the room, hence the only ones affected by our posts. The other reason it was ok, was because we were on IM discussing the scene, so we were going at a speed we were both comfortable with.

That having been said, the only way you thought Sabrina and Cate were the only ones in the room was because a player wrote it so. I think that jumped the gun a little, for the record, but I liked the results of that. A tight, focused scene that was very undemanding from my perspective (since it handled itself). The only problem, as we've seen before, was the 'blocking'.

I really just want to avoid future issues, so maybe we could all vote and discuss this? What do you think is reasonable?

24 hours
36 hours
48 hours( this is the highest I am personally willing to go, and I would be hesitant on 36 as well, because the game WILL bog down as so many games seem to.)

Being that I check twice daily at present, and I really have to have my finger on the pulse, I'm not sure I get a vote. If I'm online, I'll check on the game every now and again (equating to a 12 hour thing, I suppose).

Regards,

Barry

 

[Catulle]

ok I will refrain from IC posting until Barry chimes in.

I'm good once I hear from Jemal, really. I'll keep the other scenes moving, though.

<snip of pacing preferences> I think I covered that above, but wanted to stick with the 'address everything' approach.

But I know that people can get busy, but I think that's fine as long as we let each other know when we'll be unavailable, that would work out great.

I think communication is the key to, well, just about everything.

Regards,

Barry


Edit: See my formatting suck...

 

[Catulle]

For access, I've no idea where ENWorld's server is, but I'd imagine it's possible that we share a common route to it. Connection for me has been slow over the past couple of days (though it seems pretty good at the moment). Sounds like you have more computer issues there than just that though (thankfully I've got a 6-month old computer and a cable modem).

I believe it's in the UK. I think Morrus is from Portsmouth, in fact. Though I could be wrong.

The computer thing seems all good now. I only hope it stays that way.

Regards,

Barry

 

[KitanaVorr]

I would like to point out that I always ask in the OOC if its okay before I expedite a scene and that I'm completely willing to rewrite the expediting part of the scene if it displeases someone.

I'm not attached to my posts so I can delete and rewrite anytime. They're just words and certainly not my best work at writing as I always write them up in just under 5 minutes if I happen to be glancing at the boards.

So if my expediting is something you don't like, just let me know and I will delete it and rewrite it. I can live with deleting what was just 5 minutes of work for myself. However I can't speak for anyone else on this matter.