Vorpal Crits

[Zurai]

It says Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum damage your attack can do.

And how do you do that if you're ignoring dice? You have to look at the number and size of the dice used by the attack in order to determine the maximum damage the attack could do.

 

[DLichen]

I didn't say to ignore dice, just that you still never rolled any.

As before, even knowing the type of die you are rolling is enough to determine max damage.

 

[Victoly]

If you actually read the rules:

A critical hit is a damage roll without rolling die.

If you actually read the rules, a critical hit isn't a roll at all.
"Rather than roll damage..."

 

[DLichen]

If you actually read the rules, a critical hit isn't a roll at all.
"Rather than roll damage..."

It's not a roll in the sense that you roll die.

It must be a roll because it's implied that you have to make a damage roll to add modifiers. If you ignore the fact that you HAVE to make a damage roll to add mods, your interpretation is the most logical conclusion. I put the blame entirely on the poor layout of the damage roll section.

 

[pinbot]

wow...still going eh?

Okay, add one vote for the "Determining the maximum value of a die is not in any sense of the word rolling the die" and that the critical hit rule expressly says "rather than roll" and the vorpal rule says "whenever you roll" so there is no way that base weapon damage dice are ever vorpalized. And indeed it seems they were very careful with "rather than roll" and "whenever you roll" to make sure that this exact question never came up. So...how did it come up? lol all imnsho of course

 

[Zurai]

I put the blame entirely on the poor layout of the damage roll section.

I can definitely get behind this, regardless of the actual intent of vorpal and criticals. It's really hard to interpret intent of the rules when the rules don't even always agree with each other as written.

 

[DLichen]

Pinbot, and other users, please read the thread before posting so that you don't reiterate old arguments.

I would like to think the 10+ pages in this thread are more informative than that considering how many posts I have in there.

@ Zurai

Even so, while easily confused, I think the current wording does imply the case where you don't roll another set of weapon die on a crit.

 

[Zurai]

@ Zurai

Even so, while easily confused, I think the current wording does imply the case where you don't roll another set of weapon die on a crit.

I, obviously, disagree

I agree that there's room for interpretation counter to mine and I can't really state with absolute conviction that this other interpretation is wrong - I just believe it to be so. I believe my interpretation is the correct one, especially because it seems to fall in line with the general "say yes" theme presented by 4E. But I know I'm not likely to sway anyone that I havn't already, and in reality the issue isn't likely to come up in any of my games for a long time to come, if ever. So, I'm going to let it lie.

On a more personal note: Thank you, DLichen, for having a nice, calm, measured debate. It restores some of my faith in the ability to have an actual discussion with opposing views (as opposed to an argument that ends up in a flamewar) on the internet.

 

[DLichen]

Well, I agree that you are right to say that the RAI could be something else, the fact that no RAW arguments have toppled my interpretation does imply that as written, mine is the correct one until errata appears. But I'll leave it at that since it's now more about personal conviction than written rules.

And it has also been a pleasure debating with you Zurai.

 

[melkoriii]

you dont reroll the die because you never rolled them in the first place nor are they considered just mexed roll. Its Max damage.

Note how damage and crit damage is noted on a character sheet.

Damage crit
2d4+str 8+str


See no dies even noted for the crit. Just a number

16 pages of close minded stubbornness all to just have a debate.

Debate is over. Wait for WotC to clerify (not CS junk heads since you will get a different answer then the next guy asking the same question)