Vorpal Crits

[erik_the_guy]

Well that seems to settle it, thanks for the answer guys...
and the 20 pages of arguing...
it reminds me of playing D&D!
Well at least I got the answer before my group got to level 30

 

[Hambot]

I found Hong's interpretation made the most sense, along with the first custservice guy who said that you treat criticals as if you had rolled maximum on every dice. Hong argues that the only reason why the book says "don't roll dice" for the critical is to save you some time from doing a pointless roll, but then this has flowed on to become a logic trap for a completely literal interpretation of the Vorpal weapon interaction with the critical hit rules. As written from a legal point of view, you haven't rolled dice so you don't get the vorpal fun. But it doesn't feel right to me.

I'll be satisfied when one of the designers mentions it somewhere - I am interested in their opinion as they know what the damn thing is supposed to do as a level 30 weapon. I'm not interested in custserv providing a purely literal interpretation of the rules, that is self evident from reading them like a computer.

If the designers have time to talk about dragonborn breasts, they have time for this.

 

[Ibixat]

ok I read 15 pages then skipped to 20, I think the vorpal weapon simply needs some calrified eratta to make it make sense to everyone. I also feel that according to the PHB statement of "Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum result you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage." that technically a vorpal weapon's crit is infinite, but that would basically just be flat broken. The keyword there of course in the description being CAN before roll. Statisticly a small non-zero chance of it happening, a very small non-zero chance ok, a nearly infinitely small non-zero chance.

I think though for most cases you'll be doing plenty of damage on the attack based on the +6d12 crit dice. Too bad your chances of getting one re-roll on those is only 50%. Also the crit on any of those simple 2[w] attacks will be quite a big boost from the weapon just from the 6d12 alone.

Oh and hi, I'm new here, nice to meet everyone

 

[sirtayls]

this could very well be the most fun reads I've had on the net in quite some time. kudos to everyone with an opinion and for keeping your opinion in check with the tempers. mostly.

 

[Victoly]

I found Hong's interpretation made the most sense, along with the first custservice guy who said that you treat criticals as if you had rolled maximum on every dice. Hong argues that the only reason why the book says "don't roll dice" for the critical is to save you some time from doing a pointless roll, but then this has flowed on to become a logic trap for a completely literal interpretation of the Vorpal weapon interaction with the critical hit rules. As written from a legal point of view, you haven't rolled dice so you don't get the vorpal fun. But it doesn't feel right to me.

The +6d12 damage you get to roll on a crit is quite a bit of "vorpal fun" in my opinion, and it seems roughly balanced with the other level 30 weapons and their respective effects. Ultimately this is probably going to require some errata/clarification before we know for sure, but I'm pretty sure we all have an idea of how we'll run it in our own games, at least.

 

[Zurai]

The problem I have with "Oh it's fine it does +6d12 on a crit" is that there's a level 27 weapon that also does 6d12 on a crit.

 

[Zsig]

The problem I have with "Oh it's fine it does +6d12 on a crit" is that there's a level 27 weapon that also does 6d12 on a crit.

Except that that lvl 27 weapon doesn't allow you to reroll the dice, which is well worth +2 lvls by itself, nor does it grants you an ability to strike for another +3d12 once per day, which is well worth another +1 lvl.

 

[Zurai]

Except that that lvl 27 weapon doesn't allow you to reroll the dice which is well worth +2 lvls by itself, nor does it grants you an ability to strike for another +3d12 on per day which is well worth another +1 lvl.

It does just as much damage (the majority of the time) on a crit as a Vorpal weapon, and Vorpal weapons have always, in every edition, been "lethal if it crits" weapons.

 

[DLichen]

I think it's far better as the best damage enhancement you can get in 4e than the marginal enhancement it was in 3e.

If you want to bring back the flavor, you'll probably have to make it weaker on per hit basis since vorpal is just that good already. The extra x[W] die is just needless.

 

[Zsig]

It does just as much damage (the majority of the time) on a crit as a Vorpal weapon, and Vorpal weapons have always, in every edition, been "lethal if it crits" weapons.

And they still are.

Keep in mind that a +X Vicious Weapon is in no other way different than a "regular" +X Weapon other than the critical.
That's the main attractive in it. It deals huge amounts of damage on criticals.

Vorpal is not different. It is still lethal on a crit, as they always have been, and now they're also lethal when you don't crit.
And that, along with the criticals, is the attractive on Vorpals