Warforged: Like them or loathe them?

[Li Shenron]

It looks like warforged could be a core race in 4E. How do you feel about that?

I would say the are the coolest playable construct-type race I've seen, but the concept of a playable construct-type race is not for the first PHB. Same for the changeling/doppelgangers.

 

[drothgery]

Hm. Well, I think they'd be much more appropriate as a web enhancement than a member of the book itself. They just really don't make sense to me in this "points of light" concept, as I see it.

Why would it be necessary for every race (or class) in the PH1 to fit into the 'points of light' setting? There have been FR-specific PrCs in the 3.5 DMG, and IIRC there were classes and races in the 3.0 Oriental Adventures that didn't fit in Rokugan.

Besides, the 'points of light' setting seems like it's going to be pretty loosely defined, even more than 3.x Greyhawk without the RPGA stuff; I'm sure anyone that wants warforged could come up with a plausible explanation.

And as much as I dislike the idea of PH1 tieflings, am hardly sold on PH1 eladrins, and really only want 4e warforged ASAP because I play in Eberron (where in three campaigns we've had all of one warforged PC), including a handful of non-LotR/classic fantasy trope-inspired races is almost certainly a good thing.

I would have a hard time swallowing them as a PC race in the PHB I, and I'm only guessing, but I don't think I'm in the minority.

Well, PH1 tieflings bother me a lot more than PH1 warforged (and PH1 non-LG paladins bother me more than either). But really, the race selection's not going to bother me much one way or another as long as human, elf, dwarf, and halfling are there.

 

[Agamon]

I would have a hard time swallowing them as a PC race in the PHB I, and I'm only guessing, but I don't think I'm in the minority.

As far as this poll goes, you're in an 80% majority.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I'm indifferent. :\

 

[drothgery]

As far as this poll goes, you're in an 80% majority.

I think you're misreading the 'meh' votes here (probably because of a poorly worded poll). They include
- people who don't really care all that much which races are in PH1 (perhaps other than the four that are certain to be -- human, elf, dwarf, and halfling); that's me, BTW
- people who like warforged in Eberron, but think Eberron stuff should be in Eberron books
- people who like warforged in general, but would rather see other races first
- people who dislike warforged, but don't dislike them enough to care a lot if they show up anywhere other than PH1

Only the last group are really going to have problems with them being in PH1.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Why would it be necessary for every race (or class) in the PH1 to fit into the 'points of light' setting? There have been FR-specific PrCs in the 3.5 DMG, and IIRC there were classes and races in the 3.0 Oriental Adventures that didn't fit in Rokugan.

Besides, the 'points of light' setting seems like it's going to be pretty loosely defined, even more than 3.x Greyhawk without the RPGA stuff; I'm sure anyone that wants warforged could come up with a plausible explanation.

And as much as I dislike the idea of PH1 tieflings, am hardly sold on PH1 eladrins, and really only want 4e warforged ASAP because I play in Eberron (where in three campaigns we've had all of one warforged PC), including a handful of non-LotR/classic fantasy trope-inspired races is almost certainly a good thing.

Points of light is very generic and open-ended. Warforged are very specific, which is why they don't fit in my mind. Unfortunately I never got the opportunity to run an Eberron game. Warforged are one of my favorite elements from the setting, but they don't really belong in the PHB 1.

I guess you could say this is the sacred cow I'd have a hard time giving up. I want me DnD races to be very classic, generic fantasy. Dwarves, elves, halfings, orcs: these are all very appropriate for any DnD setting. And I honestly believe that's the best way to start with a new edition. Start generic and build into the specific.

If Warforged are included, I'm not going to throw a tantrum and declare 4e the worst thing that's ever happened to DnD. Honestly, I'd be perfectly fine with it. But a D&DI enhancement is much better place for them; official, but supplemental.

 

[Scarbonac]

The original golems of Jewish folklore were mindless constructs made of clay. Warforged are sentient and usually metal. If I had to describe warforged to someone who knew something of SF, fantasy and folklore in general but nothing of D&D specifically, I would say they were magically animated androids similar to the Tin Man from the book The Wizard of Oz, not golems of Jewish folklore.

Ooo, a shiny, axe-wielding Warforged Ranger/Paladin!

 

[Klaus]

Ooo, a shiny, axe-wielding Warforged Ranger/Paladin!

Mithril Body, Silver Tracery and Devoted Tracker for Animal Companion/Special Mount lion FTW!

 

[BryonD]

I think you're misreading the 'meh' votes here (probably because of a poorly worded poll). They include
- people who don't really care all that much which races are in PH1 (perhaps other than the four that are certain to be -- human, elf, dwarf, and halfling); that's me, BTW
- people who like warforged in Eberron, but think Eberron stuff should be in Eberron books
- people who like warforged in general, but would rather see other races first
- people who dislike warforged, but don't dislike them enough to care a lot if they show up anywhere other than PH1

Only the last group are really going to have problems with them being in PH1.

While I agree that the poll isn't well worded (as is pretty much standard for ENWorld polls) one thing that is completely clear is that the MEH votes are defined as being opposed to them being in PH1.

That doesn't at all mean that the "mehs" are against warforged. But if they read at all before voting then they are saying thye should not be in the PH1. I'd say the 80% number is an accurate reading of the poll. (Not that the poll is an accurate reading of anything at all )

 

[BryonD]

I don't think so; if they were 'house converting' stuff, they'd've converted the Illumian, and they didn't. Now, they might have an early version of the 4e Eberron races to work with (because you can bet that if they're not in PH1, they'll be in an early web enhancement or D&D Insider splat; same goes for gnomes or half-orcs if they get the axe from PH1), but I wouldn't be too surprised if warforged are in.

I'll be competely shocked if they are in.
There have been comments in multiple locations about playtests and it is not needed that every detail be repeated every time.

It seems very reasonable to guess that player A didn't see anything to match his warforged and took a swing at re-building it but player B was satisified with just changing his illumian over.

To assume that every player was forced into the same mold seems vastly less reasonable.

There was somewhere else where they mentioned that their group's first try at a worforged fell quite short of balanced. And the tone of the statements were clearly, to me, joking it off as "their mistake, no harm no foul" in a way that distanced the "not balanced" concept from official in the works 4E stuff.

Besides, putting warforged in would have fairly significant consequences. It is easy to say that a group can just ignore them. And they can. But WotC also wants to sell as much stuff as they possibly can. If warforged are in the PH1 then every DDI module will be forced to assume that a warforged is just as likely a party member as a dwarf. And if warforged are "core core" then they should also appear as npcs. And if the first fighter book has to spend page count of warforged feats and the 4E equivalent of warforged PClasses, then the value of the book will be reduced for a lot of people.

It just doesn't make sense. Particularly if you consider that they can pretty much just walk into having their cake and eating it too. Leave the original core basically true to the "classic" fantasy archetypes and start supporting 4E Eberron quickly on its heels. It sounds like it may be months to a year before the 4E core Eb book is out, but I do completely agree with you that on line support for Eberron will appear much earlier than that.

WotC will be in a hurry to support their Eberron fans. But they are not going to alienate their "no robots* please" audience to do it. Especially since they can so easily please both groups.




* - I'm not calling them robots, I'm refering to a group.