D&D (2024) Warlock spell poll.

[kilpatds]

5e Warlocks exist as full-casters-with-weird-slots, and should remain so in a game that claims compatibility with 5e.
A hypothetical 6e Warlock could be any of the suggested items. But a 5e-family warlock ... I don't like this change.

 

[Stalker0]

Personally I would rather the warlock just went all in on invocations. They are the at-will spellcaster, that's their schtick. Give them more and better invocations....and maybe a few class abilities, and that's it. No other spells. They have no major flexibility, just raw endless power, that's their thing.

 

[Remathilis]

5e Warlocks exist as full-casters-with-weird-slots, and should remain so in a game that claims compatibility with 5e.
A hypothetical 6e Warlock could be any of the suggested items. But a 5e-family warlock ... I don't like this change.

It's really debatable if warlocks ARE full casters though. Certainly, they have access to spell levels at the pace of a full caster, but to even remotely match them in power budget you need at least two short rests per day every day. Most of the math shows are really closer to half-caster+, trading versatility for power.

That said, the changes we've seen with every class do far shows that they view compatibility as "you can play use older supplements with little or no conversion", not "things will have 1:1 compatibly". They aren't reinventing the wheel, but that doesn't mean they won't change the tires and replace the hubcaps.

 

[Parmandur]

It's really debatable if warlocks ARE full casters though. Certainly, they have access to spell levels at the pace of a full caster, but to even remotely match them in power budget you need at least two short rests per day every day. Most of the math shows are really closer to half-caster+, trading versatility for power.

That said, the changes we've seen with every class do far shows that they view compatibility as "you can play use older supplements with little or no conversion", not "things will have 1:1 compatibly". They aren't reinventing the wheel, but that doesn't mean they won't change the tires and replace the hubcaps.

The old Subclasses still slot in fine.

 

[Remathilis]

The old Subclasses still slot in fine.

Mostly, yes. At least nothing so broken that it can't be fixed with a little elbow grease. Which is what I expected to be honest.

 

[Parmandur]

Mostly, yes. At least nothing so broken that it can't be fixed with a little elbow grease. Which is what I expected to be honest.

More pointedly, nothing that can't be solved with a sidebar of conversion guidelines ("move the Patron to Level 3, and give a free Slot of the Parron Spells per Long rest"), which have been promised for the final text.

 

[Gorck]

It's really debatable if warlocks ARE full casters though.

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I always thought the definition of a "full caster" was one that could cast spells all the way up to 9th level, while "half casters" topped out at 4th or 5th. The old Pact Magic and this new UA spell progression stop at 5th level, but Mystic Arcanum (both the 2014 version and this UA version) allows the Warlock to get up to 9th level spells.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I always thought the definition of a "full caster" was one that could cast spells all the way up to 9th level, while "half casters" topped out at 4th or 5th. The old Pact Magic and this new UA spell progression stop at 5th level, but Mystic Arcanum (both the 2014 version and this UA version) allows the Warlock to get up to 9th level spells.

It's also the number of slots. Paladins/Rangers get half as many as a Wizard (by Spell Point value), while an Eldritch Knoght or Arcand Trickster gets a third.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I always thought the definition of a "full caster" was one that could cast spells all the way up to 9th level, while "half casters" topped out at 4th or 5th. The old Pact Magic and this new UA spell progression stop at 5th level, but Mystic Arcanum (both the 2014 version and this UA version) allows the Warlock to get up to 9th level spells.

Mystic Arcanum doesn't quite equal a high-level caster. They get one choice per spell level, cannot upcast with it, and can only cast it once per day. Yes, they get a 6th level spell slot at the same time a wizard does, but the wizard gets to choose what spell they will cast with it out of their spells known, including upcasting a 5th or lower spell. The warlock gets their one 6th level spell choice they made and that's it (barring retaining in leveling up).

I always found MA a kludge, it was obvious that pact magic breaks down once you get past 5th level spells, so they basically abandon it and opt for a new magic system at higher level to prevent warlocks from casting multiple 6th, 7th, and higher level spells per rest. The whole system basically fails once you get to high level, which is why it switches from raising max spell level to adding more slots post 10th level.

I think the fact that pact magic itself can only do about as good as a half-caster and the fact they needed to build a separate spell system for high level spells shows how limited that mechanic actually is. It's another strike against it in my book.

 

[Parmandur]

Mystic Arcanum doesn't quite equal a high-level caster. They get one choice per spell level, cannot upcast with it, and can only cast it once per day. Yes, they get a 6th level spell slot at the same time a wizard does, but the wizard gets to choose what spell they will cast with it out of their spells known, including upcasting a 5th or lower spell. The warlock gets their one 6th level spell choice they made and that's it (barring retaining in leveling up).

I always found MA a kludge, it was obvious that pact magic breaks down once you get past 5th level spells, so they basically abandon it and opt for a new magic system at higher level to prevent warlocks from casting multiple 6th, 7th, and higher level spells per rest. The whole system basically fails once you get to high level, which is why it switches from raising max spell level to adding more slots post 10th level.

I think the fact that pact magic itself can only do about as good as a half-caster and the fact they needed to build a separate spell system for high level spells shows how limited that mechanic actually is. It's another strike against it in my book.

Actually just did the math, and a maxed out Warlock has 155 Spell Points worth of Slots, as opposed to 133 for the other Full Casters. Of course, that assumes two Short Rests and the use of Eldritch Mastery with three full novas between recharges, so in reality it's going to vary...a lot.