Was D&D the first RPG?

[The_Gneech]

You are incorrect. T&T was a direct reaction to the "complexity" of the '74 edition of D&D.

T&T was the first "rules light" game system and had a lot of important concepts (e.g., armor as DR) that were very influential ... but yes, it was a reaction to D&D.

The new edition is just as fast and flurrious as the original, actually, but does have some notable improvements. I'm thinking of trying ToEE (the original) as a T&T campaign for a change of pace.

-The Gneech

 

[davidschwartznz]

This in no way precludes it from being a role playing game. Just as some games rely on the player's ability for social skills, some other games rely on the player's ability for fighiting.

Yes, but most foamy LARPs give fighter-types an advantage over 'spellcasters' and such - more hit points, more damage, etc. But, point taken, every RPG advantages more skilled players in some manner.

SCA fighting doesn't qualify because during the fighting, there's no role-assumption to speak of. It's a martial sport, not rpg.

The SCA (in general) does have role assumption; participants are encouraged to choose a period in history to reenact and take an appropriate nom de guerre. What it doesn't have is mechanical benefit for players based on their role, nor does it have a plot (which is not to say it doesn't have drama ).

 

[francisca]

T&T was the first "rules light" game system and had a lot of important concepts (e.g., armor as DR) that were very influential ... but yes, it was a reaction to D&D.

The new edition is just as fast and flurrious as the original, actually, but does have some notable improvements. I'm thinking of trying ToEE (the original) as a T&T campaign for a change of pace.

-The Gneech

Well, rules light certainly follows, given that St. Andre thought 74D&D too complex.

Funny enough, I ordered the 7.0 Tin today, in reaction to this thread.

 

[loki44]

This concept boggles my mind.

We have 11 active players in diaglo's OD&D campaign. I think at one point in time we also had about 10 hirelings and henchmen, and a small tribe of xvarts tagging along. Somehow it works in OD&D.

 

[The_Gneech]

Well, rules light certainly follows, given that St. Andre thought 74D&D too complex.

Funny enough, I ordered the 7.0 Tin today, in reaction to this thread.

Note that the 7.0 version pretty much assumes you already know 5th Edition. And you might as well throw the "Alternative Rules" booklet away -- I can't help but wonder what they were thinking with it!

But if you're a T&T fan already, you'll probably dig the changes.

-The Gneech

 

[dcollins]

Number of Players: at least one referee and from four to fifty players can be handled in any single campaign, but the referee to player ratio should be about 1-20 or thereabouts.

My impression is that Gygax means "campaign" in a fairly large sense, with multiple gaming groups all playing in the same milieu. I've read him say that for a few years he had players at his house every night of the week, and had to enlist Rob Kuntz as a secondary DM to handle overflow. (i.e., I don't think there were 20 or 50 people at a table at the same time; all published adventures recommend 6-8, I think.)

 

[Henry]

I think something was percolating in the culture during this period, and I suspect that if D&D had never been published roleplaying games would have still appeared at some point in the 70s, but the imagination reels at the thought of what those games would have looked like.

Certainly by 1977, if Marc Miller can be believed, as I believe he has said that he was developing Traveller concepts independently of Gygax and Arneson.

 

[francisca]

Certainly by 1977, if Marc Miller can be believed, as I believe he has said that he was developing Traveller concepts independently of Gygax and Arneson.

Somewhere, in one of the "Ask Gary" threads, I asked if he thought RPGs would have developed without D&D, specifically asking about Traveller. He said that Miller had told him he used D&D as a model, so who really knows?

 

[francisca]

Note that the 7.0 version pretty much assumes you already know 5th Edition. And you might as well throw the "Alternative Rules" booklet away -- I can't help but wonder what they were thinking with it!

But if you're a T&T fan already, you'll probably dig the changes.

-The Gneech

I've got V.5, and have played some solo adventures. I'm most picking it up for the same reason I always buy some dice off of Lou Zocchi at GenCon: I like to see the old guard keep on keeping on. That, and I think it will be a good starter RPG when my boys get a little older.

 

[Cavalorn]

Emily Bronte's 'Gondal' campaign, if it can be called that, is a great example of a homebrew fantasy world dating from the mid 19th century. Although it can't be considered a RPG as such, the level of detail expended on a fantasy milieu that only a few people were intended to play in is really more reminiscent of a modern day RPG world than anything else.

The sisters used to make up adventures in this fantasy world, using toy soldiers to represent characters. Gondal was itself a breakaway from the earlier world of Angria, which had been her brother Branwell and sister Charlotte's creation. Emily never outgrew Gondal, and continued to add to it into her adult life.