We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[MarkB]

Not really a plot hole, but more of a quandary. The Force Projection of Luke walks into the base from the "secret" rear opening, and that's what leads Poe and the rest to go searching for that other way out, unseen by the First Order.

The escaping Rebels didn't know that Luke was a Force Projection--they were escaping, and none of them saw him disappear.

So....if he was a Force Projection, he really didn't need an opening to walk through. He could have just appeared, walking up from the darkness of the cave. Yet, it is a coincidence that there is a secret rear opening--that all the Rebels assume Luke used (at least until they find it closed by the rock slide)--when the Force Projection really had nothing to do with the rear entrance.

Of course, there's the crystal coyotes, too.

Or Luke knew there was another exit, and that Poe would figure it out, and that was all part of his plan.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I really enjoyed the movie a lot. I thought it was well crafted and well acted, and daring in places. Not perfect...there’s a few areas where I would have preferred things went differently. But none pf those were the central story of Rey/Luke/Ben/Snoke. That main story was great.

Honestly, for a movie like this, with so many obligations and restrictions in place, for them to surprise the audience at all is impressive. I really enjoyed how unsure I was about Rey and Ben...both seemed like they could jump sides at different points. Even Luke’s place was brought into question.

But I love the themes of learning from failure...Yoda has another classic quite about that...and about not letting the past define you. I thought both of those themes were present throughout, and are fitting themes for a Star Wars movie.

Luke went out in style, which I was very happy to see. Saving what he loved, as Rose explained how the Resistance will win mere moments before. And his closing scene being him looking at the horizon, like the iconic shot that introduced him to us decades ago.

I love the sense if closure that this movie has, while also simultaneously seeming like the start of something new. Very happy with it.

 

[Water Bob]

I really enjoyed the movie a lot. I thought it was well crafted and well acted, and daring in places. Not perfect...there’s a few areas where I would have preferred things went differently. But none pf those were the central story of Rey/Luke/Ben/Snoke. That main story was great.

Honestly, for a movie like this, with so many obligations and restrictions in place, for them to surprise the audience at all is impressive. I really enjoyed how unsure I was about Rey and Ben...both seemed like they could jump sides at different points. Even Luke’s place was brought into question.

But I love the themes of learning from failure...Yoda has another classic quite about that...and about not letting the past define you. I thought both of those themes were present throughout, and are fitting themes for a Star Wars movie.

Luke went out in style, which I was very happy to see. Saving what he loved, as Rose explained how the Resistance will win mere moments before. And his closing scene being him looking at the horizon, like the iconic shot that introduced him to us decades ago.

I love the sense if closure that this movie has, while also simultaneously seeming like the start of something new. Very happy with it.

Yes. This.

I love how Yoda's point is also a way of the character talking to the audience, saying, "This is not your father's Star Wars anymore." The story grows, changes, expands.

I honestly didn't know which way Ben was going to go, either. For a moment, I was thinking that Episode IX would be about Rey and Ben, fighting side by side against Snoke's legions.

That is something that Rian was able to pull off that kind of doubt in this film.

Heck, I thought, for a moment, that Rian was going to kill off Finn, too. Let him go down in flames as a hero--his character arc complete.



As much as I love to read a Star Wars novel or comic, too many of the stories were the same. No matter what era. The old Tales of the Jedi era stories could easily be set in the future. When publishers tried to do something a little different with the universe with the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, it seemed to turn as many people off as it turned on.

I like the new direction of Star Wars. Yes, it's sad because we've just viewed the end of an era. Luke, Han, and Leia are a thing of the past--the past stories.

It is time for growth, time for something a little different.

I can't wait to see where this all ends up in Episode IX.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Just got back from seeing The Last Jedi … impressions (needless to say – SPOILERS AHEAD!).

Overall, a good, solid Star Wars movie. Not great – I’d certainly put it behind Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars, and Rogue One, perhaps on par with Return of the Jedi, slightly better than The Force Awakens.

Likes:
- Plot mostly wasn’t derivative – I was expecting an ESB rehash. It had pieces of that (Rey training) but not in a bad way and as necessary. Though change the opening location to Yavin and closing location to Hoth and you have a plot that shoehorns well into the original trilogy.
- Good battle scenes as bookends (with some issues, below).
- The Luke-Rey-Kylo dynamic was excellent; good character growth, tension, some backstory/history/ certain point of view appropriate to Star Wars.
- Nothing wrong with the odd lightsaber fight or two in a core movie.
- Poe’s still one hell of a pilot.
- BB-8 still steals scenes.
- Porgs are cute without going all Ewok.
- Other funky monsters & aliens, good for a Star Wars movie.
- We now know where blue milk comes from!
- Yoda nod. Cheesy, but I liked it.
- Sith apprentice nod with Kylo/Snoke. Nice to set Kylo up to be the final BBEG for the last movie.
- Luke’s … death isn’t the right word. I expected him to die; thought they handled it well.
- Rey has no special backstory. Sure, Kylo could be lying, but I hope he’s not because it’s too trite to make her a Skywalker (or Kenobi, or insert fanfic here).
- Discussion of what the Force is … without midichlorians or Star Wars physics mumbo jumbo.

Dislikes:
- Cell phone jokes at the opening. Too soon, Junior.
- The First Order is a horrible military. Like: don’t launch fighters in any of your battles (except Kylo and two wingmen) until way too late. Don’t flank – everything’s a frontal assault. Oh, and you’re chasing an opponent who is retreating at your maximum speed? Instead of chasing for days, maybe, you know … hyperspace ahead of them and cut them off?
- Flying ice Leia. I mean, Star Wars physics, but c’mon.
- Gravity bombs. In space. One baby bomber kills super-dreadnaught. Sigh … Star Wars physics getting silly.
- “I’m too smart to tell anyone my plan” Admiral. There was a plan – why not explain? Would have been a good opportunity to fix the next issue …
- The entire Finn-Rose subplot adds nothing to the movie. They wander off, accomplish exactly nothing, and end up back with everyone for the finale. You could have had a subplot with them finding a spy or tracker on the cruiser (which would have fit with the tight-lipped Admiral trying not to give an advantage to the spy) and accomplished more, plus saved 30-odd minutes of movie. Sure, you can’t introduce White Lando, but at the moment he’s pointless anyway.
- Look, all-powerful evil dude! Poof … he’s gone! Could have worked in a little Snoke and rise of First Order backstory; opportunity wasted.
- I expected Leia to die, too frankly – would have been better to kill her off in this movie.
- Resuscitating Phasma for yet another dubious death scene. Now she’s 2x as useless as Boba Fett (again, delete the whole Finn arc and it really tightens up the movie).
- Hyperwave comms mumbo-jumbo. Feels too Star Trek.
- Timelines. Seems too rushed – could have been spread out a bit more.
- First Order is mustache-twirling evil. Sure, that’s a trope – but it could be more nuanced.
- Chekov’s X-Wing didn’t pay off.
- Ackbar dying off screen.

Anyway – worth seeing, and probably worth seeing twice; I’m sure my thoughts will evolve on a second viewing.

 

[Water Bob]

Likes:
- Plot mostly wasn’t derivative

Big plus for me, especially after TFA. This one kept me guessing.

- Porgs are cute without going all Ewok.

I love the Porgs! I don't really like the Ewoks!

- We now know where blue milk comes from!

Do we? Is that what that was?

I'm not making the connection between the milk of a sea creature used on a desert planet. It's a big import on Tatooine, is it?

- Luke’s … death isn’t the right word. I expected him to die; thought they handled it well.

Again, unexpected (I expected him to die but I wasn't sure how--figured Ben would kill him). But, Luke Skywalker is too much of a bad ass for Ben to kill. Rian did it right. That's how Luke should have gone out. He knew his time was near, anyway. He went to that world to die.

- Rey has no special backstory. Sure, Kylo could be lying, but I hope he’s not because it’s too trite to make her a Skywalker (or Kenobi, or insert fanfic here).

Yeah, that's soberingly refreshing. And, it's part of the theme of the movie--casting off the old and accepting a new direction. Not being latched down by the past. It's why we saw that young boy at the end, with obvious Force power, a slave on Canto Bight, who we know will rise up one day and fight on the side of the Light.

- Discussion of what the Force is … without midichlorians or Star Wars physics mumbo jumbo.

Huge thumbs up. Luke and Yoda and Rey discuss the Jedi "religion".

- The entire Finn-Rose subplot adds nothing to the movie.

I completely disagree. She is the crux of his story arc. And, Finn leaves behind his old, selfish self (escaping the fight in the escape pod) to becoming a real hero.

Not sure if Rose is dead. I'm good either way. It's bittersweet if she's dead. And, if she survives, then I really enjoyed the character. I'd like to see her again.

- Look, all-powerful evil dude! Poof … he’s gone! Could have worked in a little Snoke and rise of First Order backstory; opportunity wasted.

But, totally unexpected, setting up Ben as the BBG! I think it's a great move.

You want missed opportunity? Killing off Darth Maul in Episode I is the king of missed opportunities.

- I expected Leia to die, too frankly – would have been better to kill her off in this movie.

I believe she passed after production had ended on her scenes. Fisher's passing did make the scene where Leia is blown off the bridge out into space more gripping for me, though, because I thought that she was gone right there.

Resuscitating Phasma for yet another dubious death scene. Now she’s 2x as useless as Boba Fett (again, delete the whole Finn arc and it really tightens up the movie).

And....I suspect that she'll survive this death scene, too, and be in Episode IX.

- Hyperwave comms mumbo-jumbo. Feels too Star Trek.

They did it in Rogue One, too.

- First Order is mustache-twirling evil. Sure, that’s a trope – but it could be more nuanced.

I'm glad we saw some older First Order soldiers and commanders. Abrams had a bunch of kids in TFA. Even Hux looks older in this film.

- Chekov’s X-Wing didn’t pay off.

???

 

[pukunui]

There’s a few clues. His feet don’t turn the ground red like Kylo’s do. The two combatants never actually touch, and Luke never attacks. Luke looks younger and tidier.

True, but Luke does touch Leia beforehand. I get the sense we're supposed to think he cleaned himself up (trimmed his beard, dyed his grey hairs, changed into his old black outfit, etc) before arriving. And he does keep Ben guessing by dodging his initial strike. But you're right, the lightsaber isn't the only clue.

For me the immersion broke a couple of times when modern day vernacular was used. Both as jokes, coincidentally.

I didn't mind those ones as much as when Holdo says "Godspeed". There's never any mention of a god in the Star Wars universe, so that seems super out of place. It's always the Force.

And, I was backing up what you were saying with the other stuff...not so much clueing you in as it was clear that you were already clued!

OK. It sounded like you were explaining it to me.

Do we? Is that what that was?

I'm not making the connection between the milk of a sea creature used on a desert planet. It's a big import on Tatooine, is it?

It looked more like green milk to me. I think it was more just meant to be a nod to the blue milk thing than its actual origin.

I completely disagree. She is the crux of his story arc. And, Finn leaves behind his old, selfish self (escaping the fight in the escape pod) to becoming a real hero.

Not sure if Rose is dead. I'm good either way. It's bittersweet if she's dead. And, if she survives, then I really enjoyed the character. I'd like to see her again.

I don't think Rose is dead. At the end, when Finn gets the blanket, I think he would've covered her whole body if she was dead. Instead, he just puts the blanket on her like he's trying to keep her warm.

Also, I agree that while it seems like Finn's arc is pointless, that's because it's not *his* arc. It's Finn & Rose's arc, and although they don't succeed in getting Maz's codebreaker friend or in turning off the tracker, they do succeed in bonding. Rose says she'd like to put her fist through Canto Bight. That's exactly what they end up doing, and Finn points out that it was worth it. They both grow as characters by doing that together.

You want missed opportunity? Killing off Darth Maul in Episode I is the king of missed opportunities.

But he survived being cut in half and dropped down a reactor core! If Maul can survive that, then surely a more powerful dark side user like Snoke can too! He's clearly survived some pretty horrible injuries in the past (unless they're just meant to be the side-effects of his dark side use).

And....I suspect that she'll survive this death scene, too, and be in Episode IX.

Me too. If she can survive being deposited in a trash compactor on a planet that blows up shortly afterwards, she can survive falling into a fireball in a shattered spaceship.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

(Chekov's X-wing)

???

We see Luke's X-Wing under water at Ach-to. If he's grown from ESB, he can pull it out of the water. Don't show it without a payoff -- because if you're just doing that, you have to answer the question of how Luke got there in the first place without an Astromech (since canonically that's how an X-wing's hyperspace calculations get done).

 

[Eltab]

Sith apprentice nod with Kylo/Snoke. Nice to set Kylo up to be the final BBEG for the last movie.

“I’m too smart to tell anyone my plan” Admiral. There was a plan – why not explain?

1) We've only seen one instance where a Sith apprentice attacked his Master - but not to replace him. The changes in dynamic will be interesting to watch and cogitate over.

2) If Abrams &c. have been made aware of any future plans re: Thrawn, this 'super-smart Admiral' is stepping on the original "super-smart Admiral" 's toes. And Thrawn rarely explains his plan because nobody else understands WHY it will work.

 

[MarkB]

We see Luke's X-Wing under water at Ach-to. If he's grown from ESB, he can pull it out of the water. Don't show it without a payoff -- because if you're just doing that, you have to answer the question of how Luke got there in the first place without an Astromech (since canonically that's how an X-wing's hyperspace calculations get done).

It's there as misdirection. For the audience not to immediately know Luke's gambit is an illusion, we have to know he has a way back.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I be fair, Olgar, the flying Leia was just real world physics+using the force to move objects.