D&D 5E Weapon and Armor Types

[Shiroiken]

I used the 1E chart for a short period of time, but it didn't come up often enough to really matter. It was on the DM screen if I felt like using it, but it wasn't usually worth bothering with. The damage type one in 2E was easier to utilize, but eventually we phased it out too. I feel it's a decent way to customize the armors, but it definitely has a point of diminishing returns.

The ideal way to differentiate the armors would be a PITA, but have each armor provide different ACs for damage types (including elemental). This would setup a lot of different types of attacks and help the idea that there's not just one ideal armor for each category.

As much as I'm not a fan of 3E, their differentiation of weapons was fairly well done. Having multiple properties would help to differentiate them in 5E. I've already looked into adding some to help balance the existing ones. For example, if the Greataxe rolled an extra damage die on a critical (3d12 total) it would be very closely balanced to the Greatsword and Maul, which are currently superior.

While I agree with the design goals expressed here, I worry that there is a pretty easy workaround for PCs - carrying multiple weapon types. Every Str-based character is going to walk around with a battleaxe, warhammer, and (ironically) rapier (which can also use Str). Every Dex-based character now has a scimitar and sling to back up their obligatory rapier. Everyone becomes a "Swiss Army" character who can pull out whatever tool is most advantageous for the particular situation.

To be honest, most warriors would carry multiple weapons for different approaches. A sword might be the primary weapon, but sometimes you need to pull a mace or a dagger for close combat. Of course, in D&D characters are going to take the max damage weapons (as you point out), but if you had enough variety of use, then damage might not always be the primary focus.

 

[Stormonu]

I really liked how 3E weapons were done - with the exception of Spiked Chain. I really want to go back to the varying crit ranges at least.

 

[Charlaquin]

To be honest, most warriors would carry multiple weapons for different approaches. A sword might be the primary weapon, but sometimes you need to pull a mace or a dagger for close combat. Of course, in D&D characters are going to take the max damage weapons (as you point out), but if you had enough variety of use, then damage might not always be the primary focus.

If you’re talking about medieval warfare, a sword was more likely to be a sidearm than a primary weapon.

 

[Oofta]

Back in the late 20th century, we used the charts for a little bit but fairly quickly dropped them. One of our issues was simply how to judge natural armors and armors that didn't fit the normal pattern. Facing a bullete? Are they considered wearing plate armor? What adjustment, if any, do you apply to a manticore's spike attacks?

It just wasn't worth the overhead for us.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Currently we have slashing, bludgeoning piercing damage

Instead of focusing on weapons vs. armor, I would focus on trying to make other weapons more interesting.

Why choose a flail over a warhammer, for instance? They are both d8 bludgeoning, weight 2 lbs., but the warhammer has the versatile feature so is a "better" weapon overall.

Now, let's add a feature to the flail: If you attack a target which is using a shield, you gain a +1 to your attack roll.

This makes sense for a flail special feature because flails were used to wrap around shields and hit the shield-bearer behind it. Also, you might want an option for the flail chain or chord to wrap around an opponent's weapon, giving you an edge on disarming maybe?

The whip could be used to allow you to grapple from up to 15 feet (it's reach IIRC?). You can make an attack and if you hit, the target makes a save (DC 8 + your total attack bonus) to avoid being tripped (prone), entangled (grappled), or pushed back 5 feet (shove). Nets could work similarly.

FWIW, we have these changes in our MOD and the group actually has people taking weapons for the options they give them instead of just damage. We also have ALL martial weapons using two damage types, not just one, again increasing their versatility. Martial weapons also have advantage on damage rolls, which greatly increases your chance for critical damage (i.e. exploding damage dice).

You'll also notice we added a new damage type, "cleave".

Light weapons give the attacker a +1 on attack rolls since they do less damage in general.

Versatile weapons (when used with two hands) give you either a +1 to attack rolls (using your hands for better control) or increased damage (using your hands for better leverage).

Longbows can add STR mod to damage if you buy a custom heavier draw bow.
Crossbows (not shown) give a +1 to attack rolls against targets within normal range.
Pikes can be used to set to receive a charge
And so on...

Finally, all melee weapons use STR for damage (even finesse weapons, which are light weapons for us since we removed the finesse and two-handed properties, folding them into light and heavy).

Anyway, there is a bunch more, but that should give you an idea of how to make other weapons more attractive.

 

[GreyLord]

On a related, but different note,

With the Rapier, it is basically the Longsword (arming sword?) of 5e. The Longsword is basically the Bastard Sword (Medieval Longsword?) of 5e. They do very similar things as those weapons from older editions in many ways.

 

[DND_Reborn]

On a related, but different note,

With the Rapier, it is basically the Longsword (arming sword?) of 5e. The Longsword is basically the Bastard Sword (Medieval Longsword?) of 5e. They do very similar things as those weapons from older editions in many ways.

We added "broadsword" to serve as the arming sword since the era's we play don't (generally) include rapiers.

But otherwise, the 5E longsword is the old bastard / hand-and-a-half sword, which was really called the long sword historically LOL!

 

[Bacon Bits]

My problem with the current weapon and armor system is that it never rises above "fine". There isn't really any choice built into the armor tables, and no real reason for players to explore other weapons or armors. It's also got nonsense going on with it like the quarterstaff == cane issue, spears just being poorly represented, whole piles of weapons with identical stats, another whole pile of weapons that are strictly worse than other weapons, etc.

Nevermind the fact that it still doesn't attempt to teach players that studded leather is more appropriately understood as brigandine, or that basically all armor has a cloth gambeson. I don't demand the game be historically precise, but I do wish they would start attempting to undo some of the worst tropes.

I think D&D should pick a lane.

1. Go with 13th Age's system where your class determines how effective your armor is and what damage your weapons deal.
2. Attempt to actually be more simulationist or historic.

This halfway stuff is just frustrating on both ends of the spectrum. It feels like the only people who aren't annoyed or upset seem to be the people who don't actually care anyways.

That said, I'm really not at all about adding more fiddley bits. I'm someone who would strongly prefer 13th Age's system.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

To quote myself on the subject...

Well, that's why I liked the weapon keywords and properties from 4e. Those created an actually interesting space. They could even have been expanded. Frex:

Accurate (+1 to hit)
Finesse (can use Dex for hit/damage)
Defensive (+1 shield bonus to AC while wielding at least one Defensive weapon)
Brutal N (reroll damage dice that show N or less)
High Crit (roll extra dice when landing crits)
Unstoppable (increase crit range by 1)
Savage (roll damage twice, take the higher value)
Blunt (replace normal damage dice with average value, rounded down)
Thrown (can be used for ranged attacks without improvisation)

Etc. I'm sure I could come up with more if I weren't exhausted. The idea being, the properties don't have to be complicated, and each weapon could have (say) at most 2 properties, maybe 3 for fancy exotic weapons.

Of course I also liked the idea that you could have feats that hooked into "I use axes" stuff, but I doubt 5e is interested in that level of mechanical engagement.

I think there's even more we could do here. @DND_Reborn for example has a solid idea WRT bonuses when fighting an enemy with a shield; we could perhaps call this Shieldbreaker (+1 to hit and damage against targets that have a Shield bonus to AC.) "Entangling" or "Grappling" could also be a property, building off their suggestion about whips but having it apply to any weapon that gets all physical around the opponent. Adding those two to my list above gives us at least 11 different weapon properties that we can try to mix and match, not counting things like damage dice, handedness (one-hand, off-hand, two-hand, versatile, etc.), and special-purpose weapons (such as nets).

Feats, being particularly chunky and significant in 5e, also afford an excellent opportunity to reward specialization with a particular weapon type without being cripplingly overspecialized with a single weapon. I would expect the weapon groups to be similar to 4e's: Heavy Blades, Light Blades, Axes, Hammers (counting maces/clubs), Polearms, Spears, etc. All the basic stuff, with each <Group> Specialist feat having various juicy but distinct (and hopefully thematic!) benefits for someone willing to spend the feat in order to specialize.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Adding those two to my list above gives us at least 11 different weapon properties that we can try to mix and match, not counting things like damage dice, handedness (one-hand, off-hand, two-hand, versatile, etc.), and special-purpose weapons (such as nets).

Other features we added are on critical damage, and optional for the attacker to use. They require a save by the target with a DC equal to 8 + your attack modifier:

Dazed (for bludgeoning): WIS save or stunned until start of target's next turn.
Hindered (for slashing): CON save or target has half speed until the end of its next turn.
Skewered (for piercing): DEX save or weapon is stuck in target. On your turn you can automatically deal weapon damage (no attack roll required) unless the target uses its action to remove the weapon.
Wounded (for cleaving): CON save or take unmodified weapon damage at the stat of the target's next turn.

We are still tweaking these a bit, but in general that's the idea.