D&D (2024) Weapon Masteries too Ubiquitous? New Fighter ability suggestion.

[Chaosmancer]

Well, depends on the weapon and how many resources you've put into your current feats, right? if you're going full archer, a greatsword +1 wouldn't be enough to swing you.

I don't remember, are masteries level-swappable? That would play a role as well.

You can swap weapon masteries on a long rest.

 

[TwoSix]

You can swap weapon masteries on a long rest.

Oh wow, that's more flexible than I would have expected. That's a nice plus.

 

[Kobold Stew]

True, but this gets back to the classical problems. By level 7 your fighter has a method and plan. They aren't going to be suddenly using a mastery they've never used.

This might be a difference of playstyles, but I can imagine having the flexibility to add some new masteries on the fly very useful for mixing it up in combat.

I made a chart when the Masteries first came out to demonstrate this.

I have not done this, though. Do you have a link? This would be useful to consider.

 

[mellored]

Or maybe just give each class 1, and let the fighter get 3. Other classes can specialize, but the fighter is the weapon master.

Each class now has 2. Does not scale.
Maybe a multiclass rule to prevent stacking?

Fighter started at 3 and went to 5.
Though really, "you know all masteries" at level 5 or so would work.

 

[mellored]

I don't remember, are masteries level-swappable? That would play a role as well.

They are long rest swappable.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

This is already basically in the rules, unless there is some nuance I'm missing.

I think that's only once per action, no? Like, you can unsheet your sword when take the attack action, but you cant switch in-between 2-3 weapons during the same action. I think.

At low levels... this never happens. At mid levels this can add +1 to a single attack, +1 to three attacks if you action surge. At high levels you could potentially add +3 to seven attacks... which might be too much since that is an extra +21 damage for focus fire.

Its a lot of damage, but its only that: damage. On high level target, 21 potential extra damage isnt the end of the world for a focus fire. And it comes at the expense of the Arsenal feature that allows you to apply different condition through Masteries by juggling your weapon. You only use one instance of Mastery for that round, but you deal more damage.

Anyways, this is the idea I had in 5 minutes while drinking my morning coffee, it's not close to polished

 

[TwoSix]

I think that's only once per action, no? Like, you can unsheet your sword when take the attack action, but you cant switch in-between 2-3 weapons during the same action. I think.

Yea, you can drop a weapon and draw a new one as part of the attack action, or during your movement, but only once. You couldn't get a third in there without some thrown weapon action, I think. Nothing like the quick swap of the D4 barbarian arsenal.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This might be a difference of playstyles, but I can imagine having the flexibility to add some new masteries on the fly very useful for mixing it up in combat.

Right, but you can't change them on the fly. You change them after a Long Rest, the same time you change all your other masteries. So you end up just changing a single weapon's mastery at the start of the day, when you could also have just grabbed a mastery for a different weapon.

I have not done this, though. Do you have a link? This would be useful to consider.

I may be able to track it down?

Aha! Here was the post

I have been a bit curious, so I decided to alter the list a bit. Here are the nine masteries, after them are the weapons that that mastery can be used with, listed by the weapon's damage die. I'm not bothering to include things like reach, as most people here can quickly check that.

Mastery
Cleave (Heavy Melee Weapon)	Glaive (1d10), Halberd (1d10), Pike (1d10) Lance(1d10), Greataxe (1d12), Maul (2d6), Greatsword (2d6),
Flex (Versatile Property)	Staff (d6/d8), Spear (d6/d8), Battleaxe (d8/d10), Longsword (d8/d10), Warpick (d8/d10), Warhammer (d8/d10), Trident (d8/d10)
Graze (Heavy Melee Weapon)	Glaive (1d10), Halberd (1d10), Pike (1d10) Lance(1d10), Greataxe (1d12), Maul (2d6), Greatsword (2d6),
Nick (Light)	Club (1d4), Dagger (1d4), sickle (1d4), Handaxe (1d6), Light Hammer (1d6), Shortsword (1d6), Scimitar (1d6), Hand Crossbow (1d6)
Push (heavy, Two-handed, or Versatile)	Shortbow (1d6), Staff (d6/d8), Spear (d6/d8), Greatclub (1d8), Light Crossbow (1d8), Longbow (1d8), Battleaxe (d8/d10), Longsword (d8/d10), Warpick (d8/d10), Warhammer (d8/d10), Trident (d8/d10) Glaive (1d10), Halberd (1d10), Pike (1d10) Lance(1d10), Heavy Crossbow (1d10), Greataxe (1d12), Maul (2d6), Greatsword (2d6), Musket (1d12)
Sap (Cannot have any properties)	Mace (1d6), Flail (1d8), Morningstar (1d8)
Slow (No Pre-req)	-- ALL WEAPONS --
Topple (Heavy, Reach, or Versatile)	Whip (1d4), Staff (d6/d8), Spear (d6/d8), Longbow (1d8), Battleaxe (d8/d10), Longsword (d8/d10), Warpick (d8/d10), Warhammer (d8/d10), Trident (d8/d10), Glaive (1d10), Halberd (1d10), Pike (1d10) Lance(1d10), Heavy Crossbow (1d10), Greataxe (1d12), Maul (2d6), Greatsword (2d6),
Vex (Ammuntion, Light, or Finesse)	Whip (1d4), Club (1d4), Dagger (1d4), sickle (1d4), Handaxe (1d6), Light Hammer (1d6), Shortsword (1d6), Scimitar (1d6), Rapier (1d8) -- ALL RANGED WEAPONS--

Well.... this immediately had interesting results, didn't it? I'd missed it before but the weapons that have Sap already? Those are the only weapons that CAN have sap. That's stupid.

Cleave and Graze have no Simple Weapons. Cleave and Graze are the only two that are identical in terms of lists.

The Battleaxe and the Trident are the only weapons that can have Flex, that don't start with it. And both have Topple, with the Trident being the better weapon of the two


The Pistol, Dart, Sling, and Blowgun can only have two possible Masteries. Vex or Slow. This ties them for least number with the Mace, Flail and Morningstar, which can only have Sap or Slow.

Heavy Melee Weapons have five potential Masteries (Cleave, Graze, Topple, Push, or Slow). Versatile Weapons have Four (Topple, Push, Slow or Flex) meaning there is little reason to use a Versatile weapon except for the shield, again.

Heavy Ranged Weapons have four masteries (Vex, Slow, Push, Topple) but that category only includes Longbows and Heavy Crossbows. Most ranged weapons not listed above have three (Vex, Slow, Push)

Light weapons have three masteries (Vex, Nick, and Slow)


I find this list really eye-opening to how limiting some of these options truly are.

 

[Clint_L]

The idea of giving fighters extra benefits from masteries has merit, but I think it would also basically be doubling down on what fighters do very well. My concept is to give them something baseline that reflects the veteran/leadership qualities that are core to the class, according to the flavour text, but only exist in a few sub-classes. And thus give fighters more options. To make them a bit less basic.

Right now, if you read the words "basic D&D class" your mind goes straight to "fighter."

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think that's only once per action, no? Like, you can unsheet your sword when take the attack action, but you cant switch in-between 2-3 weapons during the same action. I think.

In 5e this is true.

In One DnD this is not true. Quoting:

EQUIPPING AND UNEQUIPPING WEAPONS: You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath, picking it up, or retrieving it from a container. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.

So, if you start with a weapon in hand, you can attack, sheathe it, draw a new weapon, attack, swap hands for free (this isn't under the weapons) and draw a third weapon to attack.

(@TwoSix as well)

Its a lot of damage, but its only that: damage. On high level target, 21 potential extra damage isnt the end of the world for a focus fire. And it comes at the expense of the Arsenal feature that allows you to apply different condition through Masteries by juggling your weapon. You only use one instance of Mastery for that round, but you deal more damage.

Anyways, this is the idea I had in 5 minutes while drinking my morning coffee, it's not close to polished

Oh yeah, I don't expect it to be polished.

And the problem with that is some of the masteries WANT to be repeated. Vex for example gives advantage on your next attack. You pretty much always want to follow a Vex attack with a Vex Attack, so that just makes that mastery even stronger.