D&D (2024) Weapon Masteries too Ubiquitous? New Fighter ability suggestion.

[Clint_L]

So, weapon masteries felt like they were going to be primarily a fighter thing, and they are in the sense that fighters get the most flexibility with them. But I find myself questioning how valuable that really is. Typically, as a campaign proceeds characters become more exclusive in weapon choice by virtue of magic items - if you have a Flame Tongue longsword you are likely going to want to use it in most situations. So how much do fighters really benefit from that flexibility with weapon mastery? Probably if you have two, you are set, and even just having one will cover most of your attacks.

And now rogues look to be getting getting cunning strikes, which again is excellent and good for them. But...between mastery becoming ubiquitous and that, it sure looks like fighters need another thing added to the base class. Their DPR and survivability are already strong, but what about a baked in mechanic tied to their leadership, increasing their overall utility to the entire party?

What about something like:

Level 2: Tactical Awareness: As reaction, once per short/long rest the fighter can use their martial training to assess the battlefield and confer ONE of the following advantages to themselves and their allies:

• roll for initiative with advantage
• AoE damage to the fighter and their allies from one attack is halved
• the fighter and their allies may immediately move up to half their regular movement speed without provoking opportunity attacks

That kind of thing?

 

[Pauln6]

So, weapon masteries felt like they were going to be primarily a fighter thing, and they are in the sense that fighters get the most flexibility with them. But I find myself questioning how valuable that really is. Typically, as a campaign proceeds characters become more exclusive in weapon choice by virtue of magic items - if you have a Flame Tongue longsword you are likely going to want to use it in most situations. So how much do fighters really benefit from that flexibility with weapon mastery? Probably if you have two, you are set, and even just having one will cover most of your attacks.

And now rogues look to be getting getting cunning strikes, which again is excellent and good for them. But...between mastery becoming ubiquitous and that, it sure looks like fighters need another thing added to the base class. Their DPR and survivability are already strong, but what about a baked in mechanic tied to their leadership, increasing their overall utility to the entire party?

What about something like:

Level 2: Tactical Awareness: As reaction, once per short/long rest the fighter can use their martial training to assess the battlefield and confer ONE of the following advantages to themselves and their allies:

• roll for initiative with advantage
• AoE damage to the fighter and their allies from one attack is halved
• the fighter and their allies may immediately move up to half their regular movement speed without provoking opportunity attacks

That kind of thing?

I do think that fighters need some basic tactical options that help allies. I think they should be able to impose disadvantage on opportunity attacks against them and then at higher levels to do the same for adjacent opportunity attacks against allies.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think weapon masteries will be very powerful in the hands of fighters. A battlemaster with weapon expert (7th level ) adding topple to their greatsword and dropping enemies prone for allies or with sentinel and toppling enemies with opportunity attacks. Or imposing disadvantage with sap.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think weapon masteries will be very powerful in the hands of fighters. A battlemaster with weapon expert (7th level ) adding topple to their greatsword and dropping enemies prone for allies or with sentinel and toppling enemies with opportunity attacks. Or imposing disadvantage with sap.

Right, but that isn't the argument.

Rangers get Weapon Mastery AND their spells and abilities
Paladins get Weapon Mastery AND their spells and abilities
Monks get Weapon Mastery AND Martial Arts and Ki abilities
Rogues get Weapon Mastery AND Cunning/Devious strikes and Cunning Action
Barbarians get Weapon Mastery AND their rage abilities
Anyone can get one weapon mastery for a feat.

Fighters get Weapon Mastery.... and?

At level 7 they can swap masteries, but that largely doesn't matter. It is a neat trick, but generally you can't put a mastery on a weapon that you couldn't get a similiar effect from just using a different weapon. It is usually a 1 pt difference in damage.

And then at level 13... they just don't have to use the level 7 ability as much.

It feels like diminishing returns. Getting 2 or 3 masteries is generally "good enough" for what you need the character to do, and you can swap them daily. So is the fighter really getting enough now that this ability is the new normal?

 

[Pauln6]

I think weapon masteries will be very powerful in the hands of fighters. A battlemaster with weapon expert (7th level ) adding topple to their greatsword and dropping enemies prone for allies or with sentinel and toppling enemies with opportunity attacks. Or imposing disadvantage with sap.

Shield master let's you prone enemies as a bonus action. I think topple might end up being downgraded slightly as at will toppling 2 or 3 times each round might turn out to be a bit much. Limiting it to once per round might be enough?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Right, but that isn't the argument.

Fair enough but

Rangers get Weapon Mastery AND their spells and abilities
Paladins get Weapon Mastery AND their spells and abilities
Monks get Weapon Mastery AND Martial Arts and Ki abilities
Rogues get Weapon Mastery AND Cunning/Devious strikes and Cunning Action
Barbarians get Weapon Mastery AND their rage abilities
Anyone can get one weapon mastery for a feat.

Fighters get Weapon Mastery.... and?

At level 7 they can swap masteries, but that largely doesn't matter. It is a neat trick, but generally you can't put a mastery on a weapon that you couldn't get a similiar effect from just using a different weapon. It is usually a 1 pt difference in damage.

And then at level 13... they just don't have to use the level 7 ability as much.

It feels like diminishing returns. Getting 2 or 3 masteries is generally "good enough" for what you need the character to do, and you can swap them daily. So is the fighter really getting enough now that this ability is the new normal?

This is not going to change, not from Wizards of the Coast at any rate. For starters to change anything would break compatibility and even if they were willing to make such a change it would never pass muster at the survey. It is not that you are wrong, as much as I would like to emulate Finn McCool or even a bankai or a shaikai, it is not going to happen in official D&D.

 

[Clint_L]

Fair enough but

This is not going to change, not from Wizards of the Coast at any rate. For starters to change anything would break compatibility and even if they were willing to make such a change it would never pass muster at the survey. It is not that you are wrong, as much as I would like to emulate Finn McCool or even a bankai or a shaikai, it is not going to happen in official D&D.

They just added a new baseline ability to rogues.

 

[Clint_L]

My thought is that thanks to all their training and experience, all fighters should have a baseline ability to assess the battlefield situation and give their team a tactical head's up at key moments. Not with the more specific commands of the Battlemaster - no need to step on their toes - but in a more general sense.

"This doesn't feel right, guys...be alert!" (advantage on initiative)
"Find cover, NOW!" (half AoE damage)
"Reform/fall back!" (instant half movement with no opportunity attacks - this would happen right away during the fighter's reaction, which I think would be unique and cool)

I'm kind of having fun thinking of these - offer a few more! And I think this would be really fun and fit the fighter flavour really well, making them more than just "person who fights good!" It would reflect that they are students of battle, qualitatively different from raging barbarians, devout paladins, and self-disciplined monks. I'm going to playtest it at my own games.

But, you know, I'm just spitballing. Suggest something better; Chaosmancer has a thread packed with thoughtful fighter ideas.

I stand by my contention that fighters kind of feel like they've lost something, with mastery belonging to everyone ("if everyone is super, no one is.").

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They just added a new baseline ability to rogues.

I like basic warlordy actions for the fighter. I think that would be fitting. The fighter used to be the leader of the group.

 

[mellored]

Fighters get Weapon Mastery.... and?

More attacks (action surge, Multiattack 3) to use them.

A paladin will never be able to topple more than twice per round.
A fighter will get up to 8 topples a round.