Weapons of Legacy

[Tauric]

What is the overall feeling about the mechanics in this book?

Are there any similar mechanics optimized for PF?

Would this book be easily adapted to PF (I would think so, since 3.5 and PF share many qualities)?

I am looking for a way to give my players special weapons at an early level, as well as give them reasons to keep those weapons at higher levels.

 

[Jhaelen]

What is the overall feeling about the mechanics in this book?

The flavour and example weapons are great, the mechanics suck.

In my (3.5) game I simply calculated the cost to create the item and had the pc pay for it in xp and gold after completing a ritual. I just ignored the associated penalties resulting in happy players and a happy DM

 

[Holy Bovine]

What is the overall feeling about the mechanics in this book?

Are there any similar mechanics optimized for PF?

Would this book be easily adapted to PF (I would think so, since 3.5 and PF share many qualities)?

I am looking for a way to give my players special weapons at an early level, as well as give them reasons to keep those weapons at higher levels.

Like Jhaelen said the fluff of all the weapons is really good. The game mechanics suck is ways never before conceived. I attempted to use these in 2 different campaigns and overhauled the cost/benefit mechanic and could not get a 'sweet' spot (ie a place where the penalties imposed balanced out with the cost and benefits of the item in question). I would just do what Jhaelen did - figure out the actual cost of the item(s) in quesion and make the PCs pay that in gold & XP and completely ignore the penalty system (especially the attack bonus penalty imposed by some weapons - that was the lamest thing I'd ever seen).

 

[Chronologist]

I created a Legacy Weapon in a friend's game, and it works okay. I agree with Jhaelen and Holy Bovine, just use the GP cost of the item and make the player pay for it at every level to keep it advancing.

Personally I'd give a 20% price discount on the Legacy Weapon since it's a bundle deal, and less customizable as a set of regular items.

 

[Tauric]

Cool. Thanks guys.

I had read in some reviews about the penalties not making any sense, or being too onerous, so I'm glad that you've confirmed that.

It sounds like I will not be making this purchase, and just doing what you have suggested, and having some sort of ritual that costs gold and XP to unlock the new powers.

 

[frankthedm]

I had read in some reviews about the penalties not making any sense, or being too onerous, so I'm glad that you've confirmed that.

A differing opinion on that... [MENTION=5122]Jeff Wilder[/MENTION]

From what I've been able to tell, the main beef against Weapons of Legacy is that the rules actually expect you to pay meaningful penalties for weapon powers that are far, far beyond what you'd normally get for the same amount of gold.

People would have been fine, for instance, if the penalties for a weapon's combat powers were things like "-2 on Diplomacy checks," because for the vast majority of melee-oriented PCs, "-2 on Diplomacy checks" is meaningless. On the other hand, "-4 HP" or "-1 to all attacks" is a trade-off that isn't a no-brainer.

In other words, weapons of legacy, by the book, were balanced, and that's not what people -- me, included, at first -- expected. As such, using them is mostly a matter of whether the DM and the players want the flavor of a weapon that grows in power with the character.

Can DMs and players work out another way of doing a similar idea, without the inherent balance of meaningful game-mechanical penalties? Of course, and in many games that will be a superior way to do things. But if you want weapons of legacy that are game-mechanically balanced, and already created for you (including rules for making your own), Weapons of Legacy is a fine book.

 

[Tauric]

Frank, thanks for the opposing opinion.

My next question, I suppose, is what exactly is the ratio of powers:gold?

Having not yet read the book, and only going by the reviews, I did not see the logic behind having your magic weapon, which is supposed to help you attack, give you a -1 in that area. I guess I would like to know what exactly the powers:gold ratio is. I am inferring that the gold piece cost of the legacy weapon is less than the gold piece cost of a regular magic weapon with the same properties. But I was under the impression that in order to unlock the powers, more gold would have to be sacrificed? Am I wrong?

If, at the time of unlocking the powers of the weapon, the character sacrificed gold and/or XP, up to the amount that would be required to buy a weapon of equal ability, would the "-1 to attack" or "-4 max HP" really be necessary?

 

[frankthedm]

I'm away from the book right now, but I thought some legacy weapons has powers that did not fit the X Power = +N Enhancement / Y,000 GP Pricing model. The book's detractors seem to undervalue properties like those.

 

[Tauric]

That is good to know, because some of the ideas I have are not exactly represented in the standard rules.

For example, I have an idea for a sword that grants access to some wind spells (as in,swing it a certain way and the spell effect triggers), which isn't addressed in the magic weapon section. If I just let al the powers be accessed at once, it would be an artifact level item, but I was hoping to give it to the party at lower levels and let them open the abilities when appropriate.

Most of my other ideas are like that as well, like a sword that changes size and grants certain divination powers, or a shield that can protect multiple characters at once.

So, stuff beyond the basic "+1 Flaming Burst" or "+3 Blinding Shield"

 

[Chronologist]

For an item with multiple effects, remember that magical swords can and do have spells they can activate, and many other permanent magical items can do this as well.

For your example of a sword that gains control over wind over time, just figure out how much it would cost at any given level. So, the base item, a "Level 4 Sword" that is a +1 Longsword would cost about 2300 gp. When the player attains 5th level, unlocks it as a Legacy Weapon, and it gain the ability to cast Feather Fall 3/day whenever the bearer falls more than 15 feet, it would cost 1200 gold pieces to upgrade (2000 base x CL 1 x SL 1 X 3/5 for uses per day), making it a "Level 5 Sword" with a total value of 3500 gp.

For choosing the abilities the sword gets and when, take a look at the Legacy Weapon Enhancement charts, they're pretty good examples of what's fair.

Another option is to basically budget the cost of the upgrades to the estimated party wealth by level. Plan for the sword to get upgrades that roughly translate to 1/4 the gold the player should gain at each level (since that's the maximum price of a magical item a player can start with, at least in my campaigns). This way, he can keep upgrading if he wants to, and you can select abilities that really fit the item outside of the ones in Weapons of Legacy.

What do you think?