What direction will D&D head in?

[garyh]

4e's design is not incompatible with roleplaying but it does not provide either something to promote it. I could very well be wrong but I think there are no substantial rules in the mechanics that tell you to and how to take into consideration aims, goals and actions of various organisms such as guilds, contacts, various groups of people (even the PC classes as NPCs) or even creatures.

How in the world is any book supposed to cover all of that? All of which will be totally different in each homebrew anyway. This is why we have DM's, instead of playing a computer game - so someone can use common sense on things not codified or codifiable.

Also, I don't see any sections in my previous edition books covering that type of stuff, either. Calling that a 4e failing seems more than a bit unfair.

 

[xechnao]

How in the world is any book supposed to cover all of that? All of which will be totally different in each homebrew anyway. This is why we have DM's, instead of playing a computer game - so someone can use common sense on things not codified or codifiable.

It is as possible and easy to provide rules and mechanics about that as it is possible to provide rules and mechanics about combat rounds. D&D just does not provide this.

This is why we have DM's, instead of playing a computer game - so someone can use common sense on things not codified or codifiable.

You could say the same about combat rounds.

Also, I don't see any sections in my previous edition books covering that type of stuff, either. Calling that a 4e failing seems more than a bit unfair.

I think you are partially right here.

 

[BryonD]

Considering the 4e DMG provides better advice about roleplaying and story than any previous DMG, I'd say game is trending toward better roleplaying and stories.

Too bad the mechanics fly in the face of that.

And to be clear, you can roleplay anything. You can play pretend while playing 4E and you can play pretend while playing systemless ad-hoc story telling. But, IME, the very best roleplaying is nurtured by rulesets that create complete idesa of what the world is and how it all works together. All the "rules are not physics", "PCs are implicitly heroes", "the rules don't apply the same to NPCs", etc elements that 4E lovers praise as wonderful changes to the rule dynamic, and lead people like Mearls and other WotC folks to flat out state that the game will appeal less to world builders, undermine that element of nurture of roleplay. Yeah, you can still roleplay. And the 4E DMG has some very solid beginner advice on the topic. But if you are getting the same or better experience with the 4E ruleset that you were with other systems, then you simply don't know what you are missing. You might be having the absolute perfect most fun time you could ever want. I'm not remotely suggesting that my preference is "right". I'm just saying that you shouldn't call it something it isn't.

Hitting a home run off a tee might be a blast. That doesn't make it equivalent to hitting a fast ball over the fence.

On the OP, I think that over the next 5+ years computer games will continue to get better and better at doing what 4E is going for and P&P will be forced to move back to the simulation side.

 

[Wormwood]

But if you are getting the same or better experience with the 4E ruleset that you were with other systems, then you simply don't know what you are missing.

Sorry, but some of us *have* experienced in-depth world-building/sim-style explorative play, and for whatever reason we currently prefer something else.

In other words: I know what I'm missing, and I'm not missing it.

 

[Cor Azer]

All the "rules are not physics", "PCs are implicitly heroes", "the rules don't apply the same to NPCs", etc elements that 4E lovers praise as wonderful changes to the rule dynamic, and lead people like Mearls and other WotC folks to flat out state that the game will appeal less to world builders, undermine that element of nurture of roleplay.

Ahh... see , now it doesn't look like you want rules for role-playing... you want rules for simulation. Yes, 4E is definitely lacking those... but then, that's by design. They went for more gamist than simulationist.

It hasn't hurt my world building any, but then, I tend not to focus too much on the simulationist parts of world-building (because I know my players won't question my hand-waving). That won't work for everyone, and so, people (like, apparently you) need a more simulationist system to get their worldbuilding to click. That's fair.

To relate this back to the thread topic - I don't see core 4E shifting back to a more simulationist design. It is decidedly gamist, and I think trying to shift it back would require far too many changes and still keep it algned with what's come so far in 4E.

However, I'm sure some supplements (either by WotC or a third party) will bring in the simulationist (I'd love to see some Magical Medieval Society 4E stuff).

 

[Delta]

My prediction is that P&P D&D will stop being published around 2018.

 

[Relique du Madde]

My prediction is that P&P D&D will stop being published around 2018.

Question is, what will replace it? D&D Miniatures? D&DO2? DDI:Table Top? The Armageddon ? Nothing?

 

[Steerpike7]

I grew up playing 1e AD&D, and to me and almost everyone I've gamed with who has tried it, 4e feels a lot like 1e in play.

I grew up playing 1E AD&D as well, and to me 4E feels the least like 1E AD&D of any edition that has come since. It's a very different game. I like it, but I have a hard time envisioning how people think it feels like 1E AD&D to be honest.

 

[Steerpike7]

With respect to the roleplaying issue, I think that's far more dependent on the group than on the rule set. The only thing I've seen so far that might take away from RPing, is I've noticed some DMs substituted things that would have been played out in previous editions with skill challenges.

 

[Grazzt]

There will be no 4.5 according to ScottR.

Oh. I'm sure there will be a 4.5. They just won't call it that. You'll see the changes (rules override the previous rules, for example) in the subsequent PH, DMG, etc. that come out once per year (if they follow their original plan). As for seeing books that say 4.5? Nope. Not likely. But there will be a 4.5 for sure.