D&D 5E What do you think a psychic class should look like in 5e?

[the Jester]

I think a fair number of old psionic classes would work as subclasses of other classes: the psychic warrior is a fighter with a splash of psionics a la the eldritch knight; the soulknife is easy to see as a blade pact warlord whose benefactor is some sort of psionic entity such as an elder brain; the lurk or whatever it was could be a rogue subclass; etc.

I do think a feat like the Magic Initiate feat would be a good option, too. (Wild Talent?)

 

[Wrathamon]

Tossing ideas out to see what sticks ...

the idea someone had with the expertise dice gave me this

Psionic classes access their powers (wether this is their mind or soul connecting with the weave through mental discipline or they are just tapping into power that is not magic) they get a number of power dice.

On their turn, if they have psionic focus, that takes an action to get into a proper mental state, they can roll these dice to power their abilities or hold some in reserve to use reaction ability or counter other psionic attacks (mental defenses).

Each power has a point cost to manifest. Designate how many dice your going to roll. If you met or exceed the cost you are successful. Exploding die might be nice here.
If you exceed the cost by double it uses the Augmented version of the ability.

Enemy psions can use dice to try and counter your manifestations by expending dice as a reaction (certain mental defense)

A psion can just expend their power dice as a Mind Blast. Make a Will save or take that much psychic damage. this expends the psions focus as they are unleashing a massive amount of mental energy and they roll on a "backlash" chart to see if any weird crazy stuff happens. They have to regain their focus again. <-- this might be too Nova-ish depending on how many power dice they get.

 

[Wrathamon]

I think a fair number of old psionic classes would work as subclasses of other classes: the psychic warrior is a fighter with a splash of psionics a la the eldritch knight; the soulknife is easy to see as a blade pact warlord whose benefactor is some sort of psionic entity such as an elder brain; the lurk or whatever it was could be a rogue subclass; etc.

I do think a feat like the Magic Initiate feat would be a good option, too. (Wild Talent?)

I agree with all of the above.

 

[Sadrik]

As the title suggests, this is for gathering ideas and opinions on the topic of psychic classes. Should it be just a feat? Should there be a class and a feat that allows minimal psionics, like Magic Initiate?

How would you like a psychic class to function? I saw some complaints that psychic casters were simply rehashed wizards in the last few editions, and didn't feel very new or unique. The uniqueness came from splatbook class variants.

If that is the consensus, I could see a Wilder-type caster being the prime class. The raw power of the mind being the foremost option. Under that, you could have your psychic warrior-type subclass, which could lean towards physical psychic boosts and a mindblade option. Also would be a subclass more like a psion. Someone learned and trained in a specific avenue of mind powers, but different enough to not just be a repainted specialist wizard.

How do you think a psychic class should look in 5e?

Psion/Wilder = Sorcerer with a bloodline... I mean isn't that the psion's storyline anyway for this type of magic anyway? That they are inborn with the powers. Sorcerer makes perfect sense.

For the :
Psychic Warrior = Subclass of Paladin or Ranger or create a whole new sorcerer/fighter spin off class that can pic a bloodline or you can simply multiclass the sorcerer with that blood line.

Some of the more unique stuff could be subclasses of other classes. Monk could pick up mindblade, etc.

So spells is how they should be presented. Then offer some spell point options that any class could pick up and use with the DM's approval. I am less interested in creating a unique casting mechanic than having them integrate more with spells and have a unique theme. Unique casting mechanic can go.

 

[Greg K]

I think it should look like the Psychic from Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook

 

[The Shadow]

Psion/Wilder = Sorcerer with a bloodline... I mean isn't that the psion's storyline anyway for this type of magic anyway? That they are inborn with the powers. Sorcerer makes perfect sense.

I think this makes a lot of sense in principle, but I also think it won't happen, for two reasons:

1) They already floated this as a possibility, and people hated it.

2) The sorcerer spell list doesn't seem that suitable to a psion, at least to me. And if they rework the spell list, they're basically creating a new class anyway.

 

[Siphersh]

5E psionics
showthread.php?356510-5E-psionics

 

[Alan Shutko]

The catch with psionics is that the existing system has fans. It'd be very possible to remake and reimagine the psionic rules (like Pathfinder is doing with its psychic magic rules next year), but that would push away favs of the old options and classes.

Which existing system was that? 1e was completely different from 2e. I didn't play with psionics in 3e or 4e, but I suspect they were completely different again, since neither 1e nor 2e were at all wizard-like.

Psionics is one of those things that just haven't found the right system. I think it's because they don't belong in D&D at all, just like ray guns. However, just like ray guns, they're there and have a seat by seniority.

So I think they could come up with just about anything and not need to be bound to any particular existing rules. I think people are less attached to the rules than the concept, so if they find rules that work with the concept, people will go along.

 

[Jester David]

Which existing system was that? 1e was completely different from 2e. I didn't play with psionics in 3e or 4e, but I suspect they were completely different again, since neither 1e nor 2e were at all wizard-like.

3e was fairly similar to 2e in that you had a distinct class that had PSP and used them to manifest psionic powers.
There's a lot of common elements between 1e, 2e, and 3e. And even a little 4e.
There are the same types of powers, many of the same powers and effects, and the like.

Psionics is one of those things that just haven't found the right system. I think it's because they don't belong in D&D at all, just like ray guns. However, just like ray guns, they're there and have a seat by seniority.

Which emphasizes my point.
Lots of people consider psionics like ray guns. Trying to make psionics appeal to people who are inclined to dismiss them anyway is a lot of work for potentially little gain, while also alienating anyone who did like psionics. First and foremost the rule set should appeal to people who want and like psionics.

So I think they could come up with just about anything and not need to be bound to any particular existing rules. I think people are less attached to the rules than the concept, so if they find rules that work with the concept, people will go along.

It should still *feel* like classic psionics. This is just as important as the wizard feeling like the wizard.

 

[ppaladin123]

Spellpoints as the deciding mechanical factor is likely not going to happen as this will likely be an option for all spellcasters. So the psion or psionic classes can have pseudo-Vancian spellcasting.

If you had asked me six months ago I'd know. I'd say a Vancian class with Psionic points that can be used to modify their spells to augment the effects. So you have the PSP feel but a class in-line with the other classes.
But that's the sorcerer now, so that design won't work.

Give me a few minutes to think and I'll have some more ideas...

Yeah I was thinking that the sorcerer already tells you how much each spell slot is worth in the 5e system calculus. So you could give a psionic class a number of points equal the value of all the sorcerer's spell slots + the "bonus" points that the sorcerer gets to augment spells with metamagic. Some of the augment options are already present by default: cast the spell at a higher level = spend additional points.

The monk is also instructional. The monk's way of the elements does something like the old augment system with some of its abilities; you can spend more ki points to make the ability stronger.


I think it would be pretty easy in the meantime to create home-brewed classes using the above as balance guidelines. Imagine the psychic warrior like a paladin type (up to 5th level powers with number of points as calculated above) and a variety of transmutation, abjuration and defensive illusion spells. Lots are already available and just need tweaking...alter self gives you the claws (but maybe needs a scaling option), enlarge/reduce is there, haste, fly, shield, etc.