D&D 4E What do you think of the 4E background to demons & devils?

[Shade]

D&D 4E: The New Coke of D&D Editions....


(No, I don't like the change.)

Heh. That's whay my gaming group has been calling it, too.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I really enjoy how it evokes the BECMI cosmology which I favor much more than the Great Wheel. However I'm voting "neutral" because I'm holding off until I see more details on the whole rest of the cosmology.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I picked the first option.

I would have selected the second, except that I'm less "concerned about the changes to the core cosmology" and more "hoping that the Great Wheel will be revived in a Greyhawk or Planescape setting sourcebook".

Even if it's not . . . I can run a Planescape game anytime.

 

[Rechan]

It stuns me that people carep this much about the cosmology. I couldn't give a damn if the fiends wore clown hats and threw toasters at one another when on their home plane. As long as they're evil nasties when they hit the Prime and are interesting villains, I don't care.

 

[FourthBear]

I definitely like the change, as I feel it makes the differences between the fiend types clear without having to pass out Lawful/Chaotic cosmological hats for them to wear. The differences in behavior and abilities for Grazz't or Malcanthet versus Mephistopheles or Glasya were so small that they did tend to appear to be the same species, just running for a different team.

I do think people are far, far over interpreting the brief bits in the article. Just because demons as a class of creatures are highly associated with pointless mayhem and destruction does not in any way relegate all demons to mindless, grunting brutes. No more than Orcs in 3e being Chaotic Evil and being associated with such somehow reduces all Orcs to grunting barbarians. it merely establishes a strong tendency for the bulk of the race. In fact, if we're getting away from Alignment based planes, I would think the variety of motives for both devils and demons could very well increase, since they're no longer cosmologically tied to planes defined by alignment.

 

[HeinorNY]

I Love it!
It's one of the changes that are clearly NOT for the sake of change!
I hope they clear everything, so it's easier and more intuitive to use the planes in the game(something I rearely did 'cause it was too attached to alignments and messy), and also turn the planes into better adventures sites!
Keep up the good work, you got my vote!

 

[Sundragon2012]

I see it as change for the sake of change. The sheep will love it though.

Baahh...baahhh.....baaahhhh. :\ Whatever.

The fact is that the new cosmology is needed to freshen up the cosmos to to speak because the Great Wheel is filled with the archaic debris of 30yrs of D&D and based on tropes that need to be re-examined and IMO abandoned for a more sophisticated cosmology that more clearly models mythic and fictional realities more than weird D&Disms.

So, no sheep here. I'm a loyal D&D DM (until recently) for 23yrs and one who wants to see the game reinvigorated in regards to the core setting. I long ago abandoned "core" cosmology because IMO it was ridiculous. The implementation of Planescape as a supposed metasetting for every D&D world, the fact that the planes were made into just another place for mortals to hang out and that alignment was necessary to make any sense of it's scheme killed the Great Wheel for me.

I'm no sheep for WoTC. In fact I have far more 3rd party material in my gaming library than WoTC materials because IMO such publishers are more inclined to push the envelope with both mechanics and lore in ways that WoTC hasn't been until more recently.




Sundragon

 

[Shemeska]

I vote: Meh.

My least favorite part about it, actually, is that in three years freelancers are going to re-retcon everything back into it anyway, except we'll still have demons as corrupted elementals and stuff. So by the "end" of 4.0 we'll have a confusing mis-mash that tries to please everyone but ends up just as confusing as what we have now.

Mark my words.

I'm also a little concerned about what happens to "scheming" demon lords like Graz'zt and Malcanthet. It's ironic that the Demonomicon is probably the most popular thing to hit Dragon in a decade and they're already making major changes to the popular ideas introduced in it. That's unfortunate, but I can see why they're doing it.

It's also unclear to what degree the planes will be akin to an afterlife, and the role of mortal souls on the planes remains unclear. I really (really) liked the idea that some demons were the "evolved" souls of wicked mortals (this is Orcus's origin, after all), and it seems like we may be losing that.

...

So while I don't hate the change, I grow increasingly wary of fluff changes that take the game away from the tradition I've enjoyed my whole life.

--Erik

You stole the words right from my mouth.

QFT and all that jazz.

 

[Shadeydm]

I never liked Sigil, or the Blood War so if those two concepts were to fade to black no big loss to me. The changes which have come to light so far would be fine as a source book to be released later, but I don't like it as the default/core assumption.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Love it. It's like they came in and sucked it right out of my brain. That and the letter 9.