What does the fighter need...

[Grymar]

The thought of free leadership at 10th level got me thinking...yeah, it doesn't work for all fighters but it is a neat idea. How about a option for 10th level fighters:

Heroic Leadership (Leadership feat, +1 to leadership score, +2 at 15th level, +2 to diplomacy)
Heroic Damage (bonus damage based off of sneak attack, like +4d6 at 10th, +6d6 at 15th)
Focused Strike (+2 BAB, increasing to +5 BAB at 15th level)
Heroic Defender (+2 Insight bonus to AC, +5 at 15th level)
Learned Warrior (Choose 2 non-class skills and they are considered class)

Those aren't concrete, but just some ideas.

 

[Klaus]

I like both those ideas. I especially like the second one about the PHBII abilities & I might use it in future.

Apart from that here’s what I’d do to boost the Fighter in a post-ToB world.

Weapon Aptitude:Yes the ability from the Warblade. Why does the Warblade get this at 1st level and the fighter never gets it? In my future campaigns this is going to be a fighter capability from 1st level and the Warblade doesn’t get it at all (they hardly need it anyway). Obviously with this al the extra details about being treated as a fighter of your level-2 is no longer relevant.

Talent Trees(at odd levels): I don’t think that a feat at every level is the answer, there needs to be something else like the Dead level recommendations for the odd levels. So something similar to d20 Modern’s Strong & Tough classes I’d offer the fighter some talent trees such as.

The Extreme Effort, Unbreakable Hero, Energy Resistance & Ignore Hardness trees if modified slightly would be rather appropriate – I’m not too sure about the Melee Smash tree as that would have some rather powerful interactions with specialisation and the new PHB II mastery feats etc. That one would need to be thought out more (ie by someone else) I feel.

I think that if you had a talent to pick at 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and 11th (I dunno past that as I’ve never played high level D&D) Then that, along with the classes PHB II abilities and feats every second level should make the fighter a decent combatant again.

Happy Gaming,
Sidekick

Great idea on the d20 Modern Talents. I'd adapt the Second Wind talent from the Tough Hero for Fighters (in d20 Modern, spend an Action Point to heal a number of hit points equal to Tough Hero level). The ability to "heal" himself would be very welcome for Fighters.

 

[Sidekick]

Great idea on the d20 Modern Talents. I'd adapt the Second Wind talent from the Tough Hero for Fighters (in d20 Modern, spend an Action Point to heal a number of hit points equal to Tough Hero level). The ability to "heal" himself would be very welcome for Fighters.

Hey that's a good one. I didn't see the Second Wind tree in the mSRD when I was looking, otherwise I would have included it as well

 

[Fishbone]

Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
And Weapon mastery ought to be free for the class.
Here is how I would do it.
Ist +1 to hit and 1 off the critical, 4th +2 damage, 8 +1 to hit and Weapon Mastery(As melee weapon mastery, may choose it with a ranged weapon), another 1 off the critical at 10 another +2 damage at 12, +1 at 14 stacking Weapon Mastery at 16 another +1 to hit at 18 and weapon counted as a size category larger with 2 taken off the critical at 20.
Fighter 20 wouldn't be so bad with +6 to hit, +6 damage, 4 off the critical and a size category boost.
That emulates the earlier stuff where the free weapon focus and specialization stuff was the reason for the class, not feats.

 

[RFisher]

I've never been particularly fond of amping up the Fighter to balance him against other PCs.

(For me it was with Weapon Specialization. Though it started even earlier than that I suppose. With the Greyhawk supplement.)

The Fighter should be the baseline. It should be dead simple.

My favorite class keeps feeling more & more like playing a Paladin, Ranger, Barbarian, Cavalier, &c. Heck, these days, it's almost turned 180°. Those other classes are--in some ways--easier to play.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I voted fine as is.

But, then again, I've never understood the whole "dead level" arguement. I fail to see why any one level in particular is more important than the character as a whole. I've yet to see someone who cries about the fifth level of fighter also cry about the sixth level of fighter. Because, in the fifth level of fighter the level is as dead as it gets for a fighter. They get no bonus to saves or a bonus feat. They do get more hitpoints and an increase to BAB, but that's it. Whereas in the sixth level they get everything! They get an increase to all saves, a bonus feat, and the BAB/HP gain. If you are going to cry about the impotence of level 5 then you should also be wracked with guilt over the verility of level 6!

That aside, I also tend to focus much more on RP and character development in my gaming. Combat is minimized. I can develop a character just as much on a so-called "dead level" as I can on a verile level.

The reason dead levels exist is because so many people are bad at math. The easiest ways to avoid dead levels is to eliminate whole-number mathematical progressions. Let's face it. Dead levels are a problem in classes where almost all of their abilities are progressions. [Fighter, paladin, wizard ... I'm looking at you] I love using the fractional progression in UA for things like BAB and saves, and it really helps to aleviate the "dead level" irritation. Everyone gets a boost to all saves and BAB at every level if you use the fractional values (which is more realistic anyway). Unfortunately, not everyone benefits from the increases that they do receive at every level.

 

[KB9JMQ]

A feat at every level.

Only change needed in my opinion.

 

[nothing to see here]

Wild Card Feats

A quick fix that we used that does not require reinventing the wheel was to borrow the concept of 'Wild Card Feats' given to the Man-at-Arms Class (fighter variant) in Iron Heroes.

Rather than take the Man-at-ARms class whole cloth, we just gave the Fighter a wild-card feat slot at 5th (low) and 15th (high) level.

Wild Card feats are essentially open feat slots that can be assigned any Fighter at any point (providing the fightrer meets the prerequisites) of time -- and remain on that fighter's feat lists for the rest of the day. Starting the following day -- the slots are open again, and can be used for the same (or different feats).

Here are the advantages as I see it:

1: POWER UP: If you believe the figher as written is underpowered compared to several alternate classes (as I do) -- this class provides a nice, but not excessive little 'bump'

2: FIGHTER SPECIFIC: The ability to CHANGE your one or two of yourfeats day to day is a surprising powerful tool, that really helps fighers shine compared to other combat classes.

3: FLEXIBLE: Obviously one or two wild-card feats make the figher a more flexible combatant, which ads to the flavour of a combat specialist.

4: SIMPLICITY: The additon requires almost no bookkeeping to implement.

5: LOW AND HIGH LEVEL BOOST: The 5th level ability is just high enough to entrice PCs to do more than dip The 15th level second wild card provides a nice high level incentive.

6: USE OF MORE FEATS: With this variant we could actually use a lot more of those feats that would otherwise go to waste.

7: DEAD LEVELS: Providing this bonyus at 5 an 15 eliminates two of the 'dead' levels from play.

Worked for us!

 

[Nightfall]

Wild cards? What we're now all using playing cards to make fighters more interesting? I think the Joker might have something to say about that...

 

[Ourph]

I think the stupid, musclebound fighter syndrome is a problem with the player behind the character though.

I think it's a combination of the way a player approaches the character and the way the rules envision the Fighter. The Fighter class, unlike almost any other class in the game, is a blank slate "generic" combat class. The player must create the Fighter "feel" by choosing feats. The way the rules are set up, the easiest and most obvious option is to simply max the Fighter out for melee or ranged attacks. This is fine at lower levels, but then the Fighter is left behind after about 10th level. The class would be better if it were redesigned to give the Fighter something extra at about this time. In older editions, this was access to a small army - and that worked pretty well.

I think that only makes it more desirable to a segment of players. Personally I prefer loners/vagabonds.

There are lots of options that play to that character type amongst the various base classes, you don't NEED the Fighter class to play a loner or a vagabond.

I don't think the typical militia soldier becomes a leader over time. You can get experience and even Charisma and still not be a leader.

Which is why the typical soldier remains a Warrior rather than a Fighter as he advances in level. The Fighter WAS intended at one point to represent the heroic fighting men of legend and fantasy literature. That archetype is definitely associated with leadership qualities. It seems to me that the Barbarian class fills the niche of the "no leadership qualities, smash-em-to-a-pulp melee type". The Fighter doesn't need to fill that role too. Returning the Fighter to his original role as battlefield leader (and giving him the means to do so effectively) sets him apart from the other classes that are currently competing him out of his "turf".