D&D 5E What else to I need to consider for a 5e realism hard mode?

[dave2008]

I agree it's easy to adjust a monster's ability to inflict or withstand hit point attrition. I do it all the time. The changes I'd want to make for a 5e "hard mode" involve ways to die other than hit point attrition. The way I see it, those are things that made TSR D&D feel like "hard mode" -- those are the things that created the suspense. Hit point attrition really doesn't do that, at least until you're one hit away from being dead. And in 5e, it doesn't even do it then. You only get it when you're one death save away.

I don't know if I've explained that well. It's easy to make 5e harder. But it takes more than hit point attrition management, IMO, to make the play experience feel like "hard mode."

YMMV, but that is all I really need for my groups. IMO, it often comes down to DM and player tactics & strategies. Some DMs can make 5e RAW game deadly with superior use of setting, terrain, and tactics. But I that is not my strong suit. I can, however, make 5e hard (again for my group) by adding a little HP (so monsters last longer), and upping damage.

Of course when I played 1e 30 years ago we never used save or die mechanics, so maybe I've always looked at it differently.

 

[Mort]

I have a great group of highly competent players and I'm thinking about running our next campaign with a 5e "hard mode" rules set. We are all interested in a campaign that plays more like a fantasy novel and less like a cartoon or video game...

Question I haven't seen asked yet, what do your players want?

Do they want a grimmer more "realistic" much harder game?

Changing the system to the degree you're proposing (maybe to a different system entirely) when/if your players want to play D&D may be too much.

Or maybe your players want something different and a big change is exactly what's called for.

Communication with them seems to be the key, and their input on the system (especially since you said they are very experienced players) will likely lead to the greatest enjoyment for all parties.



Sent from my SM-G930V using EN World mobile app

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'm confused.
In one post you say you want to stop rocket tag.

In another post you say you want a duel between a giant and a knight to come down to effectively a single blow either way, which to me is what rocket tag means.

I'll agree with others that it sounds like D&D isn't really the system for this. Might I suggest Reign?

 

[mflayermonk]

I'm confused.
I'll agree with others that it sounds like D&D isn't really the system for this. Might I suggest Reign?

There are many posts on this forum praising 5th edition's flexibility. Its flexible enough for this, too.

 

[DeJoker]

Actually just about any system is flexible enough for just about anything you want to accomplish with it -- the question is how much work will need to be invested in order to achieve that and is there perhaps a better solution (or one that is much closer to what I am trying to achieve) than the one I am currently focused on? Many folks are seeing that this could be the case for what you are striving to do with 5th Ed of course it is ultimately your choice where you put your energy and how much work you create for yourself but having done that myself more than once I will tell you that it is not really worth it as you end up with something that most folks do not like playing because it is not what they expected to be playing. In my experience at doing this the system that requires the least amount of tweaks is generally the best system to start with and then do your best to only change the most essential things and leave the rest alone.

 

[Lanefan]

I can, however, make 5e hard (again for my group) by adding a little HP (so monsters last longer), and upping damage.

Throwing in some things that bypass hit points completely is a) easy to do, and b) adds to the 'hard'. Poison is the obvious example. Another one to consider is 3e's idea of massive damage, where if you take over a certain amount of damage all at once (in 3e it was 50 h.p. I think, in 5e I'd make it a lower threshold) you have to save to see if it killed you outright even if your h.p. total would suggest survival...if nothing else it puts a crimp in the plans of cliff-diving fighters.

Of course when I played 1e 30 years ago we never used save or die mechanics, so maybe I've always looked at it differently.

How on earth did you manage that? 1e is rife with save-or-dies, either immediately (finger of death, slay living, medusa gaze, etc.) or within a very short time if your party doesn't bail you out (hold person, ghoul paralysis, all sorts of poisons, etc.) never mind the die-soon effects that don't even get a save (sleep).

Lanefan

 

[Tony Vargas]

Actually just about any system is flexible enough for just about anything you want to accomplish with it -- the question is how much work will need to be invested in order to achieve that...

The other question is 'will my players sit down and actually play it?'

The OP may have players who are only up for D&D, and maybe even only up for the current ed. Fortunately, the current ed gives the DM carte blanche to rule, opt, & house-rule in/out whatever he wants to make it into whatever he'd rather be running.

 

[DeJoker]

Oh that thought is so sad -- players "We only want to play 5th Ed D&D" -- GM "Okay I will run it are a few tweaks okay" -- players "Okay" -- GM goes home and rewrites 90% of 5th Ed changing how it looks and feels from standard 5th Ed to closely resembling Harnmaster because he wants to run Harnmaster

 

[Tony Vargas]

Oh that thought is so sad

Nod. There are a lot of players out there who just aren't open to trying a second system. And plenty of those that are, when brought together into a group, aren't all open to the /same/ second system. But, with 5e, as with 1e, you can change and house-rule and adapt and tweak until you might just as well be playing some other system.
Maybe that's not the most uplifting way to broaden a groups' horizons, but it's an option.

 

[mflayermonk]

Oh that thought is so sad -- players "We only want to play 5th Ed D&D" -- GM "Okay I will run it are a few tweaks okay" -- players "Okay" -- GM goes home and rewrites 90% of 5th Ed changing how it looks and feels from standard 5th Ed to closely resembling Harnmaster because he wants to run Harnmaster

Its not sad at all. We've been going on 3 years with the same core books and only small mechanical expansions. Unlike say 2e, 3e, 4e, and Pathfinder which gave us new books all the time, this edition is about making our own way. Wanting to try new things and new settings with the 5e rules is perfectly natural for both DMs and players.