What Epic Monster types do you most want to see?

Which Epic Monster types do you most want to see?

  • Abominations & Entities (Cosmic Abominations)

    Votes: 18 46.2%
  • Angels (all the way up to Metatron)

    Votes: 15 38.5%
  • Daemons (Altraloths, Oinoloths, Four Horsemen etc.)

    Votes: 11 28.2%
  • Demons (Demon Princes, Lilith etc.)

    Votes: 13 33.3%
  • Devils (Archdevils, Ancient Baatrorians, Lucifer etc.)

    Votes: 14 35.9%
  • Dragons (Platinum Dragons, Black Hole Dragons etc.)

    Votes: 17 43.6%
  • Elementars (Sins) & Elementals (Warp Elemental etc.)

    Votes: 8 20.5%
  • Golems (Force Golems, Quark Golems etc.)

    Votes: 11 28.2%
  • Inevitables (Transformers from different Progress Levels)

    Votes: 8 20.5%
  • Intelligibles & Humanoids (dimensional playable races)

    Votes: 14 35.9%
  • Magical Beasts & Monsters (Great Beast, Infinitaur)

    Votes: 11 28.2%
  • Pseudonaturals (Lovecraftian/Far Realm creatures)

    Votes: 15 38.5%
  • Umbrals (Anti-beings) & Nightshades

    Votes: 14 35.9%
  • Undead: Mummies, Vampires, Wights and Ghosts

    Votes: 9 23.1%
  • Undead: Death Knights, Liches, Shadows and Revenants

    Votes: 12 30.8%
  • Something Else (Post Below)

    Votes: 2 5.1%

  • Poll closed .

paradox42

First Post
Upper_Krust said:
I'm planning on giving a few guidelines for converting Elder Evils on the website when I get a chance (the basic premise being to double the CR of the 'Evil'), although whether that will give results that meet your requirements is unknown.
Not likely, for some, though for others (the Hulks particularly come to mind) it works quite well.

Upper_Krust said:
Atropus: Elder One with 133 HD. But needs the full suite of divine abilities added.
HD far too low for me of course, but in your system of planetary hit points it should work well enough. The divine rank is probably right, though the myth leaves doubt as to how high Atropus should really be (an argument could be made for merely Greater being valid, whereas an Atropus from an even earlier age might in fact be an Old One).

Upper_Krust said:
Atropus (Moon) < Ego (Planet) < Algol (Star)...interesting.
That is interesting- though I hadn't seen mention of Ego before.

Upper_Krust said:
Father Llymic: Could be anything from a Quasi-deity to a Lesser Deity.
More likely the former IMO; it's obviously akin to the Lovecraftian Old Ones and probably most similar to Ithaqua (the Wendigo) if we pick Call of Cthulhu names for comparison.

Upper_Krust said:
Hulks of Zoretha: Would make sense for each of the Hulks to be equal to one of your PCs. Otherwise setting each in the CR 32 range should suffice.
It does seem pathetic that critters meant to clear off an entire planet of all life, would be less powerful individually than the Tarrasque.

Upper_Krust said:
Leviathan: 133 HD (Macro-Fine, as per EE rules) or 266 HD (Macro-Diminutive as per doubled EE rules). I sort of like the 133 HD version here as it puts the Leviathan in the same bracket as Godzilla (although that said, a same size quadruped wouldn't look that threatening to a biped, so maybe it needs to be bigger to give it Godzilla-foe status). Though I would perhaps bring the in EE Leviathan 'Aspect' up to 66 HD (Avatar rather than Aspect) and we could say its the offspring of the true Leviathan.
Macro-Fine is clearly far too small- the book describes it as continent-sized, after all, and just its head is supposed to be the size of a whole kingdom. So actually, glancing at the size rules again, even one Macrobe application probably wouldn't be enough- you'd need it to be Mega-something to work. Perhaps Mega-Tiny or Mega-Small.

Upper_Krust said:
Pandorym: Definately a 200 HD Old One, with the 50 HD Mind Shard acting as an Aspect.

Ragnorra: Given her write-up. I place her at a very weak Sidereal, say 120 HD, although she needs a full divine suite of powers because she is relatively very weak (in terms of CR) compared to her HD.

Sertrous: Given his history, it would appear that weak demigod (CR 44) should be sufficient (therefore about 35 or 36 HD in my estimation) to give him Demon Prince status (under IH rules).
All fair estimates, though I'd probably start Pandorym as an ELH Blackball inflated by a template or two to Gargantuan size and then add the divine stuff on top of that.

Upper_Krust said:
Kyuss: As with Sertrous, weak demigod (30 HD) fits well here.
Simpler just to use the write-up from Age of Worms for him, actually; that thing doesn't have a CR included in the original adventure ("Dawn of a New Age") but the stats are well beyond CR 20- particularly if the PCs don't go through the side treks the adventure sets out for them to weaken him first.

Upper_Krust said:
Zargon: Ruled the 9 Hells and was the father of the Ancient Baatorians (In the IH the Maskim are the plural kings of the Ancient Baatorians so Zargon to be above them, Emperor as such, would require him to be in the Intermediate God type power bracket, which suggests 72 HD). Of all the Elder Evils I like the idea of pushing his anti-deity suite of powers the most.
I actually didn't get the impression that he was the ruler of all the others, just that he was a Lord among them. In other words, not necessarily Lord of the Ninth, but one of the Lord of the Nine at least. But yes, comparison with the Maskim is an obvious way to go with this if you want to inflate Zargon. Were I to include him in my game, I'd actually say instead that he's a representative of an entire race of the Ancients (i.e. there are or were others like him) and leave the stats as-is.

Upper_Krust said:
Its pretty cool though that you have them running scared...as it should be. :cool:
Depends on what from- though I'll also readily note that they avoid Constructs of the appropriate materials now like the plague. Specifically, they avoid Orichalcum, Plutonium, and anything else that their knowledge suggests will have an explosive death. Their one encounter with an Orichalcum Guardian convinced them to stay away from those as Bad News. In the original fight with it it didn't really scare them that much until it used its plasma beams and they saw how many dice were being rolled for damage- and even that just made them act with care. It was the Nuke at the finish that really put the scare in 'em.

I suppose, technically, I could do the same fearsomeness with most Epic beasts in the book if I were careful; it's all about the presentation in the end. One wonders what they'll make of the awakening Demiurge when it finally becomes active, particularly if they understand what they're potentially meeting when it does.
 

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I hope U_K starts a new thread about the contest.
U_K mentions on the site about a possible epic monster design contest. I haven't done a truly epic monster in a while (been working on monsters and campaigns to challenge mere mortals). I am definitely interested, since I like creative exercises, and I am sure more than a few cool monsters will result.

I have a couple of ideas hashed out, and I'd like whatever I settle on to be useful to someone, somewhere.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Upper_Krust said:
Looks pretty cool, I'll mention it on my news page on the next update. ;)

Aw, you don't have to do that U_K. Though if you were inclined to mention a product of mine, one more topical to your site would probably be the short Epic Feats & Familiars that I wrote as a companion to the aforementioned book of feats. ;)

But seriously, I appreciate it.

About a month or so ago, I really did a good breakdown of all the epic undead I want to cover so there are something like 60+ Undead waiting in the wings...or should that be waiting in the shadows ready to POUNCE! :D

Excellent! Are there any with a stronger version of the create spawn power? One of many ways to make an epic undead truly threatening is if it turns the creatures it kills into epic-level undead themselves. For example, a CR 30 creature whose victims all become winterwights would be quite bad if it attacked a large village (since even 1st-level commoners can be quickly turned into epic-level threats).

That should lead to some spooky encounters.

I'll probably post all the monsters on the website and choose the best 3 (or thereabouts) for inclusion in one of the books. Or perhaps start a thread herein for the monsters and then run a poll to find out the top 3 voted by all of you (since the last poll was so well attended).

I can't wait until this contest goes live. :D
 

Hiya paradox42 matey! :)

paradox42 said:
Not likely, for some, though for others (the Hulks particularly come to mind) it works quite well.

HD far too low for me of course, but in your system of planetary hit points it should work well enough. The divine rank is probably right, though the myth leaves doubt as to how high Atropus should really be (an argument could be made for merely Greater being valid, whereas an Atropus from an even earlier age might in fact be an Old One).

I suspected as much! :D

That is interesting- though I hadn't seen mention of Ego before.

Ego is a being from the Marvel Comics Universe. Basically a sentient planet.

More likely the former IMO; it's obviously akin to the Lovecraftian Old Ones and probably most similar to Ithaqua (the Wendigo) if we pick Call of Cthulhu names for comparison.

Indeed.

It does seem pathetic that critters meant to clear off an entire planet of all life, would be less powerful individually than the Tarrasque.

Less powerful than far too many worldly monsters for my liking.

Macro-Fine is clearly far too small- the book describes it as continent-sized, after all, and just its head is supposed to be the size of a whole kingdom. So actually, glancing at the size rules again, even one Macrobe application probably wouldn't be enough- you'd need it to be Mega-something to work. Perhaps Mega-Tiny or Mega-Small.

D&D really doesn't do things that size very well...maybe 4E will change that.

All fair estimates, though I'd probably start Pandorym as an ELH Blackball inflated by a template or two to Gargantuan size and then add the divine stuff on top of that.

Possibly some sort of Far Realm-Entropy crossbreed...perhaps a bit like a Garganaut. ;)

Simpler just to use the write-up from Age of Worms for him, actually; that thing doesn't have a CR included in the original adventure ("Dawn of a New Age") but the stats are well beyond CR 20- particularly if the PCs don't go through the side treks the adventure sets out for them to weaken him first.

I think I have that issue around here somewhere.

I actually didn't get the impression that he was the ruler of all the others, just that he was a Lord among them. In other words, not necessarily Lord of the Ninth, but one of the Lord of the Nine at least. But yes, comparison with the Maskim is an obvious way to go with this if you want to inflate Zargon. Were I to include him in my game, I'd actually say instead that he's a representative of an entire race of the Ancients (i.e. there are or were others like him) and leave the stats as-is.

It says "Eons earlier, Zargon had ruled the Nine Hells as the father of the Ancient Baatorians".

I dropped a clue in the Maskim entry (calling them Ancient Ones) to paint them as the Ancient Baatorians.

Depends on what from- though I'll also readily note that they avoid Constructs of the appropriate materials now like the plague. Specifically, they avoid Orichalcum, Plutonium, and anything else that their knowledge suggests will have an explosive death. Their one encounter with an Orichalcum Guardian convinced them to stay away from those as Bad News. In the original fight with it it didn't really scare them that much until it used its plasma beams and they saw how many dice were being rolled for damage- and even that just made them act with care. It was the Nuke at the finish that really put the scare in 'em.

Most people credit that as the Balor's most fearsome ability too.

I suppose, technically, I could do the same fearsomeness with most Epic beasts in the book if I were careful; it's all about the presentation in the end. One wonders what they'll make of the awakening Demiurge when it finally becomes active, particularly if they understand what they're potentially meeting when it does.

In movies I think it always helps to give the villain a scene before he ever meets the heroes, to establish the threat. The trick is in having the PCs witness the event but not be able to take part. Perhaps they only see the aftermath.
 

Howdy Ltheb dude! :)

Ltheb Silverfrond said:
I hope U_K starts a new thread about the contest.
U_K mentions on the site about a possible epic monster design contest. I haven't done a truly epic monster in a while (been working on monsters and campaigns to challenge mere mortals). I am definitely interested, since I like creative exercises, and I am sure more than a few cool monsters will result.

I have a couple of ideas hashed out, and I'd like whatever I settle on to be useful to someone, somewhere.

I'll see about setting that up tonight. I'll probably create a thread for all things about the contest. Then when the contest is reaching its end, create a poll to ask people what their favourites are.
 

mercucio

First Post
Alzrius said:
Ahem, anyway, I agree that the type of undead people are voting for counts too. Unelementals, Qlippoths et al seem interesting, but I'm far more interested in templates such as the welkin, zombie king, and strigoi.
Sweet! I could enter my epic nightshades :).
 

dante58701

Banned
Banned
I'd like to see the undead from the ELH made into templates as they rightly should have been in the first place. With all the talent on this forum, someone could certainly do them properly. Perhaps even add in Unholy Grace and Unholy Toughness since they weren't available when they originally did them.

I'd also like to see epic level versions of classic monsters...

Dracula (epic vampire - undead, template), frankenstein's monster (epic flesh golem - construct), ghost (epic undead, template), werewolf (epic therianthrope, template), the creature from the black lagoon (epic sahuagin?), witch (epic hag - monstrous humanoid).

=^.^= Mayhaps even pumpkinhead (epic undead, template, applied to a corpse?) or dreamstalker (aka...Freddy Krueger, epic undead, template).
 

Hiya mate! :)

dante58701 said:
I'd like to see the undead from the ELH made into templates as they rightly should have been in the first place. With all the talent on this forum, someone could certainly do them properly. Perhaps even add in Unholy Grace and Unholy Toughness since they weren't available when they originally did them.

I'd also like to see epic level versions of classic monsters...

Dracula (epic vampire - undead, template), frankenstein's monster (epic flesh golem - construct), ghost (epic undead, template), werewolf (epic therianthrope, template), the creature from the black lagoon (epic sahuagin?), witch (epic hag - monstrous humanoid).

=^.^= Mayhaps even pumpkinhead (epic undead, template, applied to a corpse?) or dreamstalker (aka...Freddy Krueger, epic undead, template).

Dracula, depending on what movie you watch, would probably be a Nosferatu.
Frankenstein's Monster was simply a Flesh Golem, although the version in Hellboy (Graphic Novels not the Movie) was a Flesh Colossi.
The only epic werewolf type monster I can think of is the alien from "The Thing" which is sort of a Hagunemnon.
Hard pressed to think of any epic ghosts (though I have some planned).
Epic Black Lagoon monsters are probably better as Slaad or Deep Ones from the Call of Cthulhu d20.
The Epic Witch thing is probably more level related than Monster related.

I would be surprised if something akin to Pumpkinhead or Freddie Krueger hasn't been seen in one of the seven relevant 'Monster Manuals' (Monster Manuals I-V plus Fiend Folio plus Libris Mortis).
 

Omeganian

Explorer
I wonder if a Male Confessor can be made interesting (Sword of Truth series)? Basically, a normal human, except any touch attack can convert (no save, armor and MR ignored, so are non-epic magical defenses) any creature with compassion for people, into a charmed slave with such a loyalty level, it dies if ordered to do so - brain shutdown. And the corruption by the power is such, that most Male Confessors turn out evil (ended up in euthanasia for every newborn).
 

Hey all! :)

Thanks for all the votes. A few closing notes.

In 4E World's & Monsters, a comment (referring to the 4E Monster Manual) along the lines of "We wanted to have enough of each [monster] type to allow people to build a campaign around them", stuck out in my mind. While I think an entire campaign with nothing but certain monster types would be next to impossible without repeating the same encounters over and over again, I think the goal to try and give people Campaign options rather than mere encounter options is a strong one.

To that end I have wondered a few of the poll choices are irrelevant. I can see people playing in a Far Realm themed campaign, but not necessarily a Golem themed campaign. I can see a Demon themed campaign but not a Magical Beast themed campaign.

So a handful of those choices on the poll may get broken down and 1 or 2 of them show up in a different Bestiary (The Warp Elemental might end up in the Pseudonatural Bestiary for instance).

One other idea I can see happening in the 4E Monster Manual are souped-up variants of existing monsters. I think the Cambion (now a devil) has been mentioned in such a capacity. Whether or not this will necessary for filling out the ranks is another matter entirely.

To Omeganian: Those Confessors sound a bit like Mind Flayers in human form.
 

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