What Epic Monster types do you most want to see?
Upper_Krust
Hero
Howdy Omeganian mate! 
Thats the darn spelling I couldn't remember.
Thanks.
By the way, I was planning a seperate poll on which Immortals Index mythologies you wanted to see. But in keeping with the recent idea of me boiling everything down to smaller size pdfs, I couldn't really think of more than two mythologies (Greek and Hindu) with a dozen monsters I wanted to do.
Each mythology has its own epic monsters, but few have more than a handful. Unless you would like to see really small pdfs with 3-5 monsters in them...or something like that? I can certainly find 3 monsters in each mythology.
If so, then maybe that idea is still worth a poll...?
Omeganian said:
Thats the darn spelling I couldn't remember.
Thanks.
By the way, I was planning a seperate poll on which Immortals Index mythologies you wanted to see. But in keeping with the recent idea of me boiling everything down to smaller size pdfs, I couldn't really think of more than two mythologies (Greek and Hindu) with a dozen monsters I wanted to do.
Each mythology has its own epic monsters, but few have more than a handful. Unless you would like to see really small pdfs with 3-5 monsters in them...or something like that? I can certainly find 3 monsters in each mythology.
If so, then maybe that idea is still worth a poll...?
Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
A Small-ish PDF detailing a single pantheon & relating monsters seems useful; Especially if you detail obscure pantheons. (Everyone knows who Thor is, but those native-American-nigh-unpronounceable gods? Not so much)
Otherwise I really can't say as I am not familiar with many of the pantheons besides Greek/roman, Egyptian, and Norse.
Otherwise I really can't say as I am not familiar with many of the pantheons besides Greek/roman, Egyptian, and Norse.
Upper_Krust
Hero
Hi Ltheb mate!
The devil is in the details however. In this case detailing a god takes up potentially multiple pages - at least in 3.5 (and particularly Immortals Handbook) terminology. The Gods portion of Gods & Monsters was to deliver a slightly scaled down Elder Evils style treatment of each deity.
Whether 4E will be more conducive to a full mythology treatment is unknown at this time. If you can detail each deity within 2 pages then detailing a full pantheon becomes plausible within a 96 page (for instance) book.
In the short term, what I was thinking was a series of small pdfs designed around mythological monsters. But only the Hindu and Greek pantheons stood out in that regard.
When I get Ascension done, I'll see how people like the Gods part of Gods & Monsters. I have been tweaking a sort of divine realm encounter system, which was derived from a similar system in the 2nd Ed. Adventure City of Skulls. The basis of this idea is that the bigger the splash you make in a god's 'pond' the more powerful the beings it sends to investigate.
I always wanted to do my own Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore book with dozens of pantheons explored (with all the known Pantheons as well as some unknown ones). But 3rd Editions rules overload makes that all but impossible. Perhaps 4E is the solution...?
Ltheb Silverfrond said:
The devil is in the details however. In this case detailing a god takes up potentially multiple pages - at least in 3.5 (and particularly Immortals Handbook) terminology. The Gods portion of Gods & Monsters was to deliver a slightly scaled down Elder Evils style treatment of each deity.
Whether 4E will be more conducive to a full mythology treatment is unknown at this time. If you can detail each deity within 2 pages then detailing a full pantheon becomes plausible within a 96 page (for instance) book.
In the short term, what I was thinking was a series of small pdfs designed around mythological monsters. But only the Hindu and Greek pantheons stood out in that regard.
When I get Ascension done, I'll see how people like the Gods part of Gods & Monsters. I have been tweaking a sort of divine realm encounter system, which was derived from a similar system in the 2nd Ed. Adventure City of Skulls. The basis of this idea is that the bigger the splash you make in a god's 'pond' the more powerful the beings it sends to investigate.
I always wanted to do my own Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore book with dozens of pantheons explored (with all the known Pantheons as well as some unknown ones). But 3rd Editions rules overload makes that all but impossible. Perhaps 4E is the solution...?
Upper_Krust
Hero
Hiya mate!
I don't think one single thing or even two, is the problem. Its simply the weight of everything toting up. Do I leave out divine realm, clergy/worshippers, the deities background, its key servants.
Once you start stripping layers away it all becomes a lot less satisfactory.
mercucio said:
I don't think one single thing or even two, is the problem. Its simply the weight of everything toting up. Do I leave out divine realm, clergy/worshippers, the deities background, its key servants.
Once you start stripping layers away it all becomes a lot less satisfactory.
Old poster delurking in 5... 4... 3...
Been off the boards for a few months, been lurking again for about a month to catch up on what I missed- and now it seems time for me to rejoin the collective.
Actually Brane is already taken, by me- though I checked the thread a few minutes ago and it seems the new boards don't want to display the post (it was post #612 in the Epic Bestiary thread- right now it looks blank). I suspect length problems, given what I've read elsewhere on ENWorld since my return to lurking. Fortunately the old text is still there for editing, so I may repost it in parts in the near future. I made it a Nehaschimic dragon, but one that had more starting HD than any of the three types mentioned in Bestiary Vol. 1 (Bestiary has 512 as the biggest, my dragon starts with 608). Just as the Nexus Dragon is supposed to be the "wormhole dragon," I gave the "brane dragon" an alternate "common" name- the Firmament Dragon. And BTW U_K, if you want to use that in a future supplement, I hereby give you full legal permission to do so with no expectation of any form of payment- other than a credit for writing on the beast of course.
But Muhlatimic Dragons are a very intriguing idea, I would like to see one or more of them. Supersymmetric or Strong Symmetric might work, depending on what context of "supersymmetric" one uses as a basis for the monster idea.
On-topic for this thread, I do like the idea of a series of smaller supplements that get collected into a larger book at some point; faster release is a Good Thing and this way we might get to see cool stuff more quickly than we otherwise would have. I'll edit this post in a bit with full details on my voting list and why I picked those monster types. My list closely matches Ltheb's, interestingly enough, though I didn't ask for Undead (my campaign is very undead-light so I use such monsters sparingly and thus have less use for them than most) and did ask for Magical Beasts (bring on the Demiurge-level Great Beast I say!). Full list:
Abominations & Entities Unwanted/malformed children of gods and greater beings- the original Epic Monster idea from just about all Earth mythologies. I'm especially eager to see the "general traits" of the Entities so I can make my own; I've got a party of shortly-to-be newly-ascended gods who are slated to confront just such a being in a few months' game time. I'm also hoping this category includes the Anomalies, the malformed offspring of Eternals and the next tier above Entities. Bring on the Infinitaur!
Dragons Come on, what's the game called again? What DM doesn't happily giggle over the monster listing for a new dragon, particularly with the super-dragon ideas U_K gave us in the first Bestiary?
Elementars and elementals I'm more interested in the Elementars actually, since they're something new, but the Quintessence and Un-elemental were unique enough that I wouldn't mind seeing more like them if there are more to be shown.
Golems Minions. Powerful beings need minions, and these are the perfect don't-ask-questions never-tire never-stop workers. Plus, the existing bunch (Orichalcum? Neutronium?) are so cool I'm practically salivating at the thought of what nastier ones like the Black Hole Golem must be like.
Magical Beasts & Monsters Dabbat (the Great Beast originally slated to be the example Time Lord for Ascension) is in this category? Then I'm voting for it. Also, if the Infinitaur is here rather than with Abominations (presuming that it's no longer an Anomaly), that's another reason to vote for it.
Pseudonaturals My campaigns are very Far-Realm-heavy at the moment, so the more of these inhabitants of the non-place I can use, the better off I am.
Umbrals & Nightshades As Ltheb said in his post, "these sound interesting." What sort of being forms when true, non-dimensional Nothingness cleaves off bits of itself into existent reality? Inquiring minds (like mine) want to know. Plus, Qlippoth is an esoteric word heavy with import that has often been used in roleplaying supplements, and I want to see U_K's take on the notion.
For the record, I actually voted on this a month ago, but didn't feel the need to delurk and make an actual post explaining myself at the time. Now that I do I figure I may as well explain, though.
Been off the boards for a few months, been lurking again for about a month to catch up on what I missed- and now it seems time for me to rejoin the collective.
XR TRON said:Sounds sweet, but I don't think Quasar is epic enough. Here's some info on why: "While there was initially some controversy over the nature of these objects, there is now a scientific consensus that a quasar is a compact halo of matter surrounding the central supermassive black hole of a young galaxy." This seems analagous to a smoke cloud and a fire. Between those two, which is probably more potent? I can't think of any better names right now, but Brane or Strong Symmetric are both there for you to play with.
Actually Brane is already taken, by me- though I checked the thread a few minutes ago and it seems the new boards don't want to display the post (it was post #612 in the Epic Bestiary thread- right now it looks blank). I suspect length problems, given what I've read elsewhere on ENWorld since my return to lurking. Fortunately the old text is still there for editing, so I may repost it in parts in the near future. I made it a Nehaschimic dragon, but one that had more starting HD than any of the three types mentioned in Bestiary Vol. 1 (Bestiary has 512 as the biggest, my dragon starts with 608). Just as the Nexus Dragon is supposed to be the "wormhole dragon," I gave the "brane dragon" an alternate "common" name- the Firmament Dragon. And BTW U_K, if you want to use that in a future supplement, I hereby give you full legal permission to do so with no expectation of any form of payment- other than a credit for writing on the beast of course.
But Muhlatimic Dragons are a very intriguing idea, I would like to see one or more of them. Supersymmetric or Strong Symmetric might work, depending on what context of "supersymmetric" one uses as a basis for the monster idea.
On-topic for this thread, I do like the idea of a series of smaller supplements that get collected into a larger book at some point; faster release is a Good Thing and this way we might get to see cool stuff more quickly than we otherwise would have. I'll edit this post in a bit with full details on my voting list and why I picked those monster types. My list closely matches Ltheb's, interestingly enough, though I didn't ask for Undead (my campaign is very undead-light so I use such monsters sparingly and thus have less use for them than most) and did ask for Magical Beasts (bring on the Demiurge-level Great Beast I say!). Full list:
Abominations & Entities Unwanted/malformed children of gods and greater beings- the original Epic Monster idea from just about all Earth mythologies. I'm especially eager to see the "general traits" of the Entities so I can make my own; I've got a party of shortly-to-be newly-ascended gods who are slated to confront just such a being in a few months' game time. I'm also hoping this category includes the Anomalies, the malformed offspring of Eternals and the next tier above Entities. Bring on the Infinitaur!
Dragons Come on, what's the game called again? What DM doesn't happily giggle over the monster listing for a new dragon, particularly with the super-dragon ideas U_K gave us in the first Bestiary?
Elementars and elementals I'm more interested in the Elementars actually, since they're something new, but the Quintessence and Un-elemental were unique enough that I wouldn't mind seeing more like them if there are more to be shown.
Golems Minions. Powerful beings need minions, and these are the perfect don't-ask-questions never-tire never-stop workers. Plus, the existing bunch (Orichalcum? Neutronium?) are so cool I'm practically salivating at the thought of what nastier ones like the Black Hole Golem must be like.
Magical Beasts & Monsters Dabbat (the Great Beast originally slated to be the example Time Lord for Ascension) is in this category? Then I'm voting for it. Also, if the Infinitaur is here rather than with Abominations (presuming that it's no longer an Anomaly), that's another reason to vote for it.
Pseudonaturals My campaigns are very Far-Realm-heavy at the moment, so the more of these inhabitants of the non-place I can use, the better off I am.
Umbrals & Nightshades As Ltheb said in his post, "these sound interesting." What sort of being forms when true, non-dimensional Nothingness cleaves off bits of itself into existent reality? Inquiring minds (like mine) want to know. Plus, Qlippoth is an esoteric word heavy with import that has often been used in roleplaying supplements, and I want to see U_K's take on the notion.
For the record, I actually voted on this a month ago, but didn't feel the need to delurk and make an actual post explaining myself at the time. Now that I do I figure I may as well explain, though.
Last edited:
Upper_Krust
Hero
paradox42 said:
Welcome back paradox42 mate!
I trust you have been well?
paradox42 said:
I may take you up on that and use it in the eventual Dragon mini-supplement.
I will probably have a bit of a shake up of things with regards power levels in 4E, taking a tighter rein on things. The recent discussion (which you may have missed) about Elder Evils and what constitutes a world threat got me thinking a little.
Its somewhat demoralizing having all these ideas and just not being able to 'get them out there'. So anything which speeds up the process is a good thing.
Undead seem to be doing poorly in the poll which I find really strange. I definately thought I under represented them in the first Bestiary.
Thinking about it though the Great Beast by virtue of being a Dragon should probably be in the Dragon supplement...Mulahtimic perhaps...
The key is differentiating them from Abominations sufficiently, more specifically making them something more than just bigger and badder abominations. I think I have done that with regards their various 'looks' not sure about the mechanics though - I need to play up the dimensional aspects more. Part of me wants to put certain Far Realm entities in the Pseudonatural pdf, but I think that would defeat the purpose of boiling the pdfs down to get them out quicker.
With my epic dragos being built around classes, a 4E interpretation may be somewhat different from a 3.5 update.
Reading some of the 4E preview material sounds like WotC are introducing a bunch of new materials into the game, I have also uncovered some new occult materials that I'll be looking to introduce myself.
I don't want to big them up this early, but there are some cracking monsters in the planning.
Even if the Great Beast makes the shift to the Dragon pdf there will still be some real heavy hitters in here.
I have been planning out the Far Realm pdf and the only problem is that when I do some research I generally go into idea overdrive and tend to come up with too many ideas, so its going to be a case of picking the best 15 (out of about 30 now) for this pdf. But don't worry if it doesn't show up herein I'll save it for a rainy day (like the Abomination pdf).
The Umbrals are really great monsters they are sort of like the immortals of the nightshades. The only thing I am concerned about is the Umbral art, not sure I really did the Void Dragon or the Unelemental justice first time around (art wise).
Its all good.
Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
Well, to be fair to undead, they suffer from a lot of limitations in epic levels. They need rediculous HD to have enough HP and BAB to threaten the average character, which means if you give them those HD, their save DCs are also inflated. (They also have way too many feats because of this) And their best defenses, like being immune to crits and many kinds of spells, don't mean anything in epic.Upper_Krust said:...
Undead seem to be doing poorly in the poll which I find really strange. I definately thought I under represented them in the first Bestiary.
The Umbrals are really great monsters they are sort of like the immortals of the nightshades. The only thing I am concerned about is the Umbral art, not sure I really did the Void Dragon or the Unelemental justice first time around (art wise)...
As for umbrals, I really liked the artwork in the bestiary of the Unelemental. In a recent anime, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, the end villain looked just like one! (And had a strange echoing voice and a mishapen mouth which had the end result of making him really creepy) He was drawn as sort of a flickering chalkboard caricature. Sadly, he was only in a few scenes and never given a name.
(I think people on the internet refered to him as 'Chalkman' but he isn't given a name in the series; to be fair, he was the collective hivemind of a super-advanced race)So, I do like the Un-beings quite a bit, mainly because if described right they can really freak out PCs and they have qualities that make them decent threats as epic monsters.
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