What Games do you think are Neotrad?

[Reynard]

I'm going to watch the Questing Beast video again and see if I can figure it out.

Having rewatched it, I am surprised to find out that I am not, in fact, "trad" because I do not want to tell the players my story. rather, I usually want us to discover a story together, relying on improvisation, random results and player choices. I guess that kind of puts me in the category of OSR, even though I would never have put it that way and don't play OSR games except Shadowdark. But I am definitely not running games where the players run a tavern. Maybe these categories just aren't very useful.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

Maybe these categories just aren't very useful.

I'm coming to to that conclusion myself. OTOH, "OSR" is at least as undefined a term as "neotrad" is to me. It certainly doesn't mean what Ben thinks it does to everyone in the OSR community, which is itself pretty divided on what fits under the umbrella and what doesn't.

 

[TwoSix]

Most of the labels are about as useful as labels on musical genres. You can generally tell when a song (or performer) has a lot of the characteristics of a particular genre, but a lot of the interesting work is done at the margins, or explicitly hybridizes genre characteristics.

For me, I tend to view games that are rules-light, and where most of the weight of character differentiation and exceptionalism happens at the narrative layer rather than the mechanical layer, as NOT very neotrad.

But I might be wrong! Especially since the origins of neotrad grow out of text-based online forum roleplaying, which obviously aren't mechanically heavy.

Like Monsterhearts and Fabula Ultima (or Daggerheart?) are both character-focused games, but I think they're very separate streams of game design. PbtA games, in general, I don't view as having strong neotrad characteristics other than characters being the primary focus.

 

[GobHag]

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Isn't the entire point of the article on six rpg philosopies that they do not apply to games but to communities or individuals?

 

[schneeland]

But I might be wrong! Especially since the origins of neotrad grow out of text-based online forum roleplaying, which obviously aren't mechanically heavy.

I think the confusion - and also my personal grip with the "6 cultures of play" article - stems partly from the fact that neo-trad and OC culture get thrown into one bucket. And I'm not convinced they are actually the same thing. As the "What does it take to be a “neotrad” role-playing game?"-blog post that is linked from the 6 cultures blog post discusses, Neo-Trad was brought up by Tomas Härenstam from Free League in the context of Mutant Year Zero. And while I'm not sure I agree with everything stated there, I feel it makes more sense to tie Neo-Trad to a design philosophy.
And then there might be an overlap with OC culture, but at least in the Free League games I've read and played, I didn't feel that there is a consistent theme of bringing your own characters into established fictional universes (yes, Free League does some pretty good licensed games, but they also do their own stuff like Forbidden Lands, Coriolis or Symbaroum).

 

[GobHag]

Isn't the entire point of the article on six rpg philosopies that they do not apply to games but to communities or individuals?

Yes but games do espouse a certain playstyle to be the 'correct' way to play them, some more than others. Or to be more exact, what games caters to the neotrad playstyle?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Thanks. I am personally wary of mechanics that tell players what to do with their characters and GMs what to do with their world. I think those things are better conducted through play choices rather than mechanics.

I guess I'm just trad-trad. Or old.

So old.

It depends on how tightly you draw the lines too.

I know there are people who are (from slightly to astonishingly) resistant to players defining world elements, but people running superhero games have been used to that to one degree or another for a very long time. While a player can certainly say his character is hunted by Group X the GM has already defined, its not been at all uncommon for them to define Group Y that they came up with for the purpose, and its usually been expected the GM would hop on board that, at least in a limited way. This has gone all the way up to countries or even planets.

Is that Trad? Neo-Trad? Something else?

 

[gorice]

Honestly, the 'Six Cultures' essay is a bad piece that confuses more than it illuminates, and seem to mostly exist to defend certain types of branding or subcultural identification.

Regarding OC specifically: every account of it that I read seems to describe a different thing, and some of them just end up sounding like 'story now' play with emphasis on particular techniques or constraints.

I think it would be more constructive to put the term aside for a moment and look to what the OP actually wants to achieve in play. @GobHag , what is it about OC that appeals to you?

 

[innerdude]

PbtA is not neotrad. It puts characters at far too much risk. There's way too much of a chance for your character being forced to evolve in ways narratively that may conflict with a player's initial conception.