D&D 5E What happened to the Hermaphrodites???

[Lord Twig]

"Corellon is alternatively male or female, both or neither", this quote gives Corellon agency and control over his gender, which is pretty cool, IMO, as most of us do not have such control. However, describing him as androgynous and/or hermaphroditic/intersex gives him more identity, as it becomes part of who he is, rather than something he can change at will. But, it's all shades of meaning that don't stray too far away from each other.

In my campaign, humans ask their elven friends, "Your god, Corellon, is he a man or a woman?" And then they are mystified when the elves respond, "Yes."

Okay, I like this way of describing Corellon better. Well done. I'll use this.

 

[Dire Bare]

You don't exactly need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out what it means from its roots and context, though. " 'Intersex'? 'Intersex'? Is that a dish detergent brand? Some kind of tropical fish? It's an impenetrable mystery!"

Please. Intersex is not a commonly used word, and it's meaning is not immediately apparent. It's a very new term that isn't (yet) in widespread use. Sure, if you are good at breaking down words into parts to deduce meaning, you can do that here, but that isn't something most folks are good at. It's a bit insulting to assume it's an easy decipher, implying that if you don't get it, you're stupid.

Still, it's noteworthy that the paragraph doesn't use any of our standard contemporary labels for gender and sexual minorities, instead describing them obliquely. There's no "gay", "lesbian", "bisexual", or "transgender" any more than there's "intersex". I don't know why the writers made this decision, but if I were the one writing and made the same decision, it would be because these terms have become labels for communities and subcultures in modern society as much as the physical and mental traits that members of these communities use to define them. I think it's sort of like how they wouldn't just say "You can be white, black, Asian, or any other race" because those racial labels (especially "Asian") are defined by real-world geography and history, even though of course your character can have whatever appearance you want.

Well, when discussing the elven deity Corellon, he isn't gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, so using those words would be odd. All of those words, including intersex, are pretty modern and do "sound out of place" in a medieval fantasy. But then again, so are a lot of other words we use in D&D.

 

[Aaron L]

I always liked the way the 2E Monster Mythology described Corellon as being both male and female since "he" is the Elven Creator God and thus has attributes of both mother and father as befitting the all-encompassing divine "parent" of the Elven race, and also as "he" represents all of Elvenkind, both male and female, equally (and especially since Elves just don't have the same kind of hard gender role divide as do other races.)

"He" may present a male aspect for more typically "masculine" activities such as warfare, and perhaps a female aspect for things such as art and creation, but that is not set in stone as neither creation nor warfare are exclusively masculine nor feminine (and also since Elven culture has pretty much just as many Elven women involved in warfare and Elven men involved in nurturing/creative roles as the other way around.)

 

[Dire Bare]

Okay, I like this way of describing Corellon better. Well done. I'll use this.

Aaron L above pulled that quote from the 1E Deities & Demigods, I was just quoting. I agree though, it works pretty well for me.

EDIT: Or, maybe if you were referring to my last line . . . then, THANKS!

 

[Lanliss]

I had a dream last night that dragons were sequential hermaphrodites; they could change from one sex to the other, based on breeding opportunities. Evolutionarily, it made sense for a species with such a small population and birth rate and such a high investment in individuals. But the dragons were embarrassed about it, and it's one of the things that made them grumpy and hide in caves and eat adventurers. My dream was narrated by David Attenborough.

I actually like this a lot. I might steal this for my world.

 

[Dire Bare]

I had a dream last night that dragons were sequential hermaphrodites; they could change from one sex to the other, based on breeding opportunities. Evolutionarily, it made sense for a species with such a small population and birth rate and such a high investment in individuals. But the dragons were embarrassed about it, and it's one of the things that made them grumpy and hide in caves and eat adventurers. My dream was narrated by David Attenborough.

I swear I've read that very same scenario in a fantasy novel at some point. Well, except for the embarrassed and grumpy part . . . .

 

[Savage Wombat]

I don't mind the elven god being any of these things.

I just think the name "Corellon" sounds awfully male. And I don't think it fits to have "her" use a slightly different name when in a female aspect. I'd rather have a more "either/both" sort of name.

 

[LordEntrails]

If people are offended by words they don't understand the meaning of, that's not WoTC problem.

Maybe not legally or morally, but it is WotC's problem. If people are offended by the content they publish then some people will not purchase the product. You can argue about the value of bad publicity, but it regardless of what you think, some people could be offended by such and every responsible business should be responsible to it's employees and shareholders and make responsible business decisions.

 

[cbwjm]

What I don't get is why they went with "androgynous" instead of "intersex". "Androgynous," at least as I've seen it used, refers to one's physical appearance and has nothing to do with sex or gender identity. Of course he appears androgynous, that's par the course for elves

Did they just assume that players wouldn't know what "intersex" meant?

Maybe they did assume, I only know what it means because people are referring to it in this very thread. I would have otherwise used hermaphrodite.

 

[pogre]

What I don't get is why they went with "androgynous" instead of "intersex". "Androgynous," at least as I've seen it used, refers to one's physical appearance and has nothing to do with sex or gender identity. Of course he appears androgynous, that's par the course for elves

Did they just assume that players wouldn't know what "intersex" meant?

It was not a term known to me. I'm old and out of the loop though.

I am interested in avoiding terms that make others uncomfortable - so I'm still trainable.