What is it about rogues?

[outsider]

What is it about being a rogue which requires a player must have some sort of annoying behavior such as...

I play alot of rogues, so perhaps I can provide some answers.

*Hording all the loot they find, including the loot they "find" on their friends after one dies in battle.

I've seen characters of all classes do this. It is -extremely- bad form to do it. Nothing ticks me off more than when people don't get their fair share of the loot. The only time I recall stealing from another player was when they grabbed something off of another player's corpse. I stole it and returned it to the proper owner.

*Always pointing out that in the course of normal travel with no expectation of combat that, while the party is walking along the path, the rogue is 30-50 feet ahead of and to the side of them traveling through the woods.

Because when they are with the group, stealth is penalized/useless, and stealth is a big part of the rogue role.

*Frequently seeking opportunities to steal simply for the sake of stealing.

D&D is the game of killing things and taking their stuff. I don't see the problem with skipping the first step once in a while.

I think the rogue class just attracts a certain... let's say, unsavory element. The same sort of person who always plays spies and snipers in Team Fortress 2, or snipers in any other game which allows it...

I play snipers and/or spies in alot of games. I don't see what's unsavory about that.

Now, not all rogues have to be like this. I mean, in my experience, they have been, but it's conceivable that someone else might accidentally wander into the rogue territory and not play the class like a jerk. But I think every group has that one guy who always plays rogues or their equivalents, no matter the game or system.

Yeah, I'm basically that guy.

Ok, I'm done blowing off my steam. Please berate me and tell me that I'm wrong.

For the most part, I don't understand what you are complaining about. Player vs player theft isn't appropriate for most D&D groups, but it's not something that is related to the rogue class. I don't see any of the other complaints as very valid at all.

 

[Kinneus]

I play a lot of online games via Maptool, and I've noticed one more "it's always the rogue" sort of thing. The rogue seems to be the favored class of younger, less experienced players, players that "alwys mispell thngs lik dis", make poorly-built characters with little to no attempt at a background, and generally do unwise things in combat.

I'm in about three games right now, and two of them contain at least one rogue that meets that description. They rush headlong into combat, don't even try to get CA, shout out taunts that sound like they were riffed from their Saturday morning cartoons... I don't really particularly mind it, but it's a strange coincidence.

As for other role stereotypes, the "evil wizard" is a real popular one. You have a party of good-aligned adventurers... and then, for some reason, a tiefling wizard that worships Lolth or a human artificer that only wants to rape and pillage. These characters irritate to me no end, because realistically, the party would dice them up the first time they kill a prisoner in cold blood, or attempt to leave a helpless person behind. But instead all the other characters are forced to treat them with unflappable kindness, even as they insult them to their faces, in the name of party cohesion.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It's called roleplaying. And it's a bad thing.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

What is it about being a rogue which requires a player must have some sort of annoying behavior such as...
<SNIP>
I think the rogue class just attracts a certain... let's say, unsavory element. The same sort of person who always plays spies and snipers in Team Fortress 2, or snipers in any other game which allows it...
<SNIP>
Ok, I'm done blowing off my steam. Please berate me and tell me that I'm wrong.

Being a long time player of Thieves in pretty much every RPG *and* regularly plays a Sniper in Battlefield 2 and other FPS.... Berate/Berate/Berate.....

As said upthread, its more about the player than the class... but I will defend the habit of 'grabbing a little extra from the hidden chest I found'.. Most Thieves/Rogues/whatever have a prime character flaw of being greedy. Someone who lives on the dark side of the law for greed should be expected to snag a little extra bling here and there.

That being said, the DM should set loot up with this expectation and the player should stick to small portions loot that does not impact the groups effectiveness.

...or, in the case of one Dwarven Rogue of mine.... perhaps the Palidon of the group would take offense and strike the thieving bastard dead...

Anyway, I beleive that if I am playing a greedy Thief, I should be skimming from treasure piles and practicing my larceny where I won't get caught. However, being a greedy thief that wanders with a group of characters with violent tendencies {PCs...}, its best to keep that practice away from where it might result in a sharp sword to the guy... or a pissed off player at the table.

Its all about discretion... and enjoying the game as a group even when an uppity Palidon kills you over a minor issue of losing his gem encrusted holy symbol in a friendly game of Sabbac



Kinneus.. regarding party cohesion, it goes both ways. Playing the top left corner of Lawful Good in a campaign that is basically violent grave robbing and genocide isn't always the best choice. The entire party should look at thier character types and concepts with an eye towards team cohesion.

 

[Nifft]

Very occasional Rogue player here. It's fun to flank & spank.

4e makes Rogues quite fun, by allowing them to provoke AoOs from Marked foes, which is awesome because "you missed me and hurt yourself" is awesome. (Yes, this means Bloody Path is awesome. Cope.)

Basically, IMHO the Rogue is fun for the similar reason the Wizard is fun: he has exactly the right unexpected trick to win. The Wizard stands smugly five squares back, though, while the Rogue delivers his smugness more directly, by sticking a dagger in the opponent's face.

As to the intra-party theft... that stuff was fun when I was 12. I got older, and it got old too.

Cheers, -- N

 

[fba827]

we could petition to call the class "dex-based skill guy with dex-based-light-weapon attacks and percision strike damage."

that might disassociate some of the inherent baggage and stereotyping that goes on by playing a "rogue" or "thief" class character.

... okay, so I'm not entirely serious because that is a mouthful, but, yeah, I do agree that the class name itself is what brings that "element" of the player mindset

For what it is worth, anytime that I have played a rogue PC (which is maybe 2 or 3 times I can remember since 1st edition), I never did the typical rogue/theif mentality. It was always the nimble person, or 'break in guy and move silently guy to scout/spy' but not pickpocket-guy.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ranger

• Pen-ultimate woodsman...

For future reference, 'penultimate' doesn't mean what you think it means.

-Hyp.

 

[Asmor]

For future reference, 'penultimate' doesn't mean what you think it means.

-Hyp.

Thanks Hyp. I was tempted to say something but I can be a bit pedantic...

 

[Skallgrim]

In defense of the thieving, greedy, shifty, sneaky, scouting Rogue:

have you considered that some of this is roleplaying?

I mean, Wizards get cantrips and familiars, and get to gad about with their Prestidigitation and the like.

Paladins and Clerics (and Invokers, and Avengers....) all get their prayers, and god-bothering and sermonizing.

Rangers hunt, and track, and talk to their animal companions (and so does the Shaman, even though his is a spirit).

Bards sing, or rhyme, or play the lute.

By picking out things that Rogues do, the Rogue player could simply be pointing out, like the player of the wizard, or bard, or cleric, what his character is. It just so happens that many of the things Rogues do involve sneaking and stealing.


It's not like the Rogue will carry around random locks and pick them at dinner ("Ta-da! And it's open!"). Many of the things which define the rogue as a class involve taking advantage of other people. I'm not claiming you HAVE to be a jerk to be a rogue, but I am suggesting that, for some players, it is hard to find a way to "portray" a rogue, without using these stereotypical behaviors.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu
Ranger

• Pen-ultimate woodsman...

For future reference, 'penultimate' doesn't mean what you think it means.

-Hyp.

I kinda like the idea of ranger who was always second last in the marching order.