Oh come on... pretty sure all the guys a) still playing the 70's games and b) writing clones and adventures through clones aren't just nostalgic…
What is OSR about?
Oh come on... pretty sure all the guys a) still playing the 70's games and b) writing clones and adventures through clones aren't just nostalgic…
First of all, OSR is a nebulous name, it's either called "Revival" or "Renaissance" depending on who you ask.
The OSR as referenced to that seemed to be born out of a few things. There were rule sets created to be clones of OD&D/AD&D coming out a few years ago. I think the key critical mass came when EGG died and WoTC announced 4e, because the former gave us some introspection and thoughts towards the history of D&D, the latter I think caused a lot more alienation of older D&D fans because of all the changes. It's sort of like a perfect storm came into place.
The key difference in the last few years is the proliferation of blogs (instead of message boards) reflecting on the past, along with the word being adopted.
It's hard to know if this is a sudden increase in activity is large or small.
I think a lot of additional stuff factors does involve the nostalgia element. Note--this IS NOT A BAD THING, Nostalgia is not a dirty word unless it is used as such. Part of the reality right now is that many of us who started in the very late 1970s to early 1980s are now approaching middle age. That involves some reflection on the past--people revisiting their formative years. That's why you see oldies focused on the music of 30-20 years ago as a key demographic.
And you will note this with some blogs. While some blogs focus on general analysis, other talk about other things along with gaming like comics and "heavy metal". That isn't really old-school. (Most of the game creators weren't really into heavy metal like the adolescents who played it).
To be honest, I hate the term "old school" in itself because that's a colloquialism that seems fundamental opposed to the language of D&D, and to be represents the slang of the 80s generation.
We'll have to see how long the "R" part of the OSR lasts. If it's something deeper than middle-age reflection and/or a fad, it'll likely last and grow stronger. If not, it won't.
As long as people have fun, I don't care.
The OSR as referenced to that seemed to be born out of a few things. There were rule sets created to be clones of OD&D/AD&D coming out a few years ago. I think the key critical mass came when EGG died and WoTC announced 4e, because the former gave us some introspection and thoughts towards the history of D&D, the latter I think caused a lot more alienation of older D&D fans because of all the changes. It's sort of like a perfect storm came into place.
The key difference in the last few years is the proliferation of blogs (instead of message boards) reflecting on the past, along with the word being adopted.
It's hard to know if this is a sudden increase in activity is large or small.
I think a lot of additional stuff factors does involve the nostalgia element. Note--this IS NOT A BAD THING, Nostalgia is not a dirty word unless it is used as such. Part of the reality right now is that many of us who started in the very late 1970s to early 1980s are now approaching middle age. That involves some reflection on the past--people revisiting their formative years. That's why you see oldies focused on the music of 30-20 years ago as a key demographic.
And you will note this with some blogs. While some blogs focus on general analysis, other talk about other things along with gaming like comics and "heavy metal". That isn't really old-school. (Most of the game creators weren't really into heavy metal like the adolescents who played it).
To be honest, I hate the term "old school" in itself because that's a colloquialism that seems fundamental opposed to the language of D&D, and to be represents the slang of the 80s generation.
We'll have to see how long the "R" part of the OSR lasts. If it's something deeper than middle-age reflection and/or a fad, it'll likely last and grow stronger. If not, it won't.
As long as people have fun, I don't care.
My point is only that you and Hobo may reasonably have differing opinions about exactly when the thing switched from being "some activity" to "The OSR".
For example, it is not unreasonable to say that it really isn't big enough to consider a Named Thing until it got so big and active that those who weren't specifically watching noticed it. You may not agree, but it isn't an irrational position to hold.
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
First of all, OSR is a nebulous name, it's either called "Revival" or "Renaissance" depending on who you ask.
The OSR as referenced to that seemed to be born out of a few things. There were rule sets created to be clones of OD&D/AD&D coming out a few years ago. I think the key critical mass came when EGG died and WoTC announced 4e, because the former gave us some introspection and thoughts towards the history of D&D, the latter I think caused a lot more alienation of older D&D fans because of all the changes. It's sort of like a perfect storm came into place.
The key difference in the last few years is the proliferation of blogs (instead of message boards) reflecting on the past, along with the word being adopted.
It's hard to know if this is a sudden increase in activity is large or small.
I think a lot of additional stuff factors does involve the nostalgia element. Note--this IS NOT A BAD THING, Nostalgia is not a dirty word unless it is used as such. Part of the reality right now is that many of us who started in the very late 1970s to early 1980s are now approaching middle age. That involves some reflection on the past--people revisiting their formative years. That's why you see oldies focused on the music of 30-20 years ago as a key demographic.
And you will note this with some blogs. While some blogs focus on general analysis, other talk about other things along with gaming like comics and "heavy metal". That isn't really old-school. (Most of the game creators weren't really into heavy metal like the adolescents who played it).
To be honest, I hate the term "old school" in itself because that's a colloquialism that seems fundamental opposed to the language of D&D, and to be represents the slang of the 80s generation.
We'll have to see how long the "R" part of the OSR lasts. If it's something deeper than middle-age reflection and/or a fad, it'll likely last and grow stronger. If not, it won't.
As long as people have fun, I don't care.
This is an interesting analysis. It skips over people like myself who began playing D&D when it first came out (and who were gamers of other games [wargames, miniature wargames, etc.] prior to the advent of D&D in 1974). It is interesting to me, when I go to play at Gencon, GaryCon, and other small conventions and gamedays, or when I glance over the many OSR blogs, to see that there is a gap in the references and language between my own memories and nostalgia (not a bad word) and that of the OSR. I'm not an OSR guy myself, though I do check out the retro-clones when I get the chance, just like I check out systems from the 80s, 90s and newer for a session or two, just to enjoy them for what they are and to stay in touch with design trends, in general.
I played a handful of (O)D&D games just last weekend and have to say that most were run and had the same feel as games I recall playing even 35 years ago but the retro-clone games, as good as their intentions might be, seem to often miss the mark. There was an impressionist once who used to do a great impersonation of a particular actor. He did it so well that anyone else claiming to do an impression of that same actor was often really just doing an impersonation of the impressionist doing his impersonation of that actor. Thus far the retro-clones have left me with the same feeling. They are impressions of impressions (of impressions of etc.) and they are built to be that way, to emulate both the rules and the style of play the designers believe best capture what they felt when gaming (or approximate what they believe others are saying is what they felt when gaming). When this is done by people who didn't have a similar background to the original designers and who came into gaming even as later renditions of the rules were being developed, it shows in the gameplay at the table. It can still be a lot of fun but it isn't going to be quite the same.
The OSR exists because people were ALREADY alienated from WotC's version of D&D ca. 2005. Really, no really, it has nothing to do with 4e. The people blogging about OS games and making retroclones were alienated by 3e, not 4e.
Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
This.
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
The OSR exists because of 3E, 4E, and even non-D&D games that were not satisfying the itch OSR games try to scratch. All games not scratching that itch reinforce the void which OSR games attempt to fill. To try and point only to one specific game would suggest a consensus that clearly doesn't exist in the OSR movement.
The fact that the OSR was born on internet messageboards and blogs dedicated to pre-3e versions of D&D suggests otherwise.
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
The fact that 3E didn't/doesn't exist in a vacumn and that the OSR didn't stop existing when any other RPG came out, including 4E, alongside the fact that the OSR isn't the invention of a single person, suggests you are missing the larger picture.
1 - I never suggested the OSR was the invention of a single person. I have, in fact, been saying the exact opposite in this thread.
2 - The point I am making is that the release of 4e was not a major impetus in the development of the OSR, not that nobody on the face of the earth was every disillusioned by 4e and decided to go back and play pre-2000 editions of D&D.
3 - If you disagree with #2, please point out a few of the significant OSR blogs, message boards or product lines whose owners/creators specifically credit the release of 4e as a significant impetus for their renewed interest in talking about, playing and producing material for OS games.
