What should pcs have and what should they fight

[Tranzquility]

I am running a FR game and my PCs are currently lvl 6 with +3 almost every thing
the party consists of a wizard a bard a rogue and a fighter
the fighter has full plate +3 a great sword +3
the wizard has a few items to help him with ac and a +3 staff and x-bow
basicly every one has +3 items the game started out with them trying to excape a town that was being sieged by there arch villen well they excaped with orcs on there tails the hole time i mean thats not that big of encounters and they were wipeing them out so i waited intell they went though some marshes and then i threw at them some lizzard folk Cr1 per each lizzard and there was 7 of them total so a average party level of 5 right vs an encounter level of 7 i figured it would be a 1/1 decent battle well of course not they martched over them so later on when they set up camp i had an ettin attack them it was the only thing that even damaged the fighter but still it didnt even damage him that bad


well in our next game i am putting them up agenst some cr 10 monsters and at the end of the adventure they are going to fight there first boss type encounter a retriver and i am just wondering if i should write in the story that a rogue stills there armor if they cant make a successfull lissening check at night while they are camping or what to improve the fun of the game play its just annoying that it is all hack and slash at the moment so in input is welcome thank you and sorry for the bad spelling and grammer ( just in a hurry)
-tranz-

 

[domino]

If you don't like it being hack and slash, making it HARDER hack and slash doesn't really sound like a good idea to me.

Try giving them plots that simply can't be solved by chopping everything into bite sized chunks, instead.

 

[Tranzquility]

well i give them plots like right now they got to meet with this sage to find out more about the villen in the game.... so i was thinking when they get to the sage wich lives out in the mid of no were right...... they go in talk to him for a while they come out but the villen has been looking for the sage to so the villen and 2 wizzard.summoners are there they sommen a retriver for them to deal with while they kid nap the sage wich gives a hole new adventure trying to save the sage from his fate......

 

[domino]

Which involves more hacking and slashing. I was thinking of things where they need to find things out themselves, talk to people, so they find out where and how to get to the people that they need to hack and slash.

If your players aren't as interested in that, and much prefer to chop and slice and stab, things might be more difficult. But try giving them problems that simply can't be solved by killing or wounding.

 

[Tranzquility]

i agree with you but the only thing is they want to go kill stuff because they think they can martch over now if they ran in to an encounter that tore them up really bad maybe killed 1 of them or 2 and left the rest badly wounded it might stop them from wanting to do that...


i dont know i do agree with you 100% btw i am verry new to dming i have played a lot but this is my first campaign to dm

 

[Stormrunner]

Well, lvl 6 PCs shouldn't have "+3 everything". And you're finding out why.
DMG, page 135, Table 5-1:Chartacter Wealth by Level. This is the suggested total wealth per character per level. That's TOTAL, including all equipment, mounts, and magic items (NOT a per-item amount as some players seem to think). Per the table, 6th-level is 13,000 gp. Though the DMG doesn't state it, a good rule of thumb is that no single item should be more than one-third to one-half of the total, otherwise you get the character who's totally naked excapt for a single magic item...well, maybe not that extreme but you get the idea.
So a 6th-level PC should have no item worth more than about 6,000-7,000 gp, totalling no more than 12,000-14,000 gp.
A single +3 weapon costs over 18,000 gp, +3 armor or shield costs more than 9,000 gp each. A fighter in +3 full plate(10,650gp), +3 heavy steel shield(9,170gp), and a +3 greatsword(18,350gp) has 38,170gp of magic items, not counting his normal gear. By the suggested wealth levels, he'd have to be 10th level to afford that.

You've been way too generous with the magic items, and your 6th-level party is decked out like a 10th-11th level party should be. It's no wonder they're steamrollering CR6 monsters and you're having to throw CR10 critters at them to even scratch them. In 3.x your gear makes a much bigger difference than it did in AD&D. The fighter in the above example has an AC of at least 26, plus Dex, Dodge, or any other bonuses he might have lying around. So to have a 50/50 chance of hitting him, a critter needs to have an attack bonus of at least +16.

CR 1 lizardmen will hit this guy only on a natural 20, so they're doomed if they stand toe-to-toe and whack away. Instead, they should use tactics. Trip or Bull Rush him into the water, then Grapple and hold him under until he drowns. Same with the spellcasters - they can't cast while they're breath-holding unless they prepared with Silent Spell, or while they're being grappled unless they have Still Spell. A nice tangly net will reduce the mobility of the pesky rogue. In general, fight smarter, not harder.

Another problem with unbalanced wealth levels is the players are more fragile. Their gear gives them AC and to-hit (and perhaps a few skills, spells, or saves) equivalent to higher-level characters, but they don't have the hit points, class abilities, spellcasting levels, or base saves of a true high-level party. For example, spell resistance that would have a 50/50 chance of stopping the spells of a 11th-level wizard will be much more effective (at least 75%) against the tricked-out 6th-level wizard. Another example: The retriever's eye rays do 12d6 with a DR18 Fort save for half. That's an average of 42 damage (21 half). An Fighter11 has a Fort save of +7, probably another +3 for Con, so around +10 or so, meaning he needs an 8 or better to save (65% chance), reducing the average damage to (35% full + 65% half)= 28 points. He has around 98 hp, so he can get hit three times, on average, and still survive. The Fighter6 has a base save of +5, +3 for Con = +8. He needs a 10 or better to save (55% chance). So the average damage he takes is 30.5 - and he has only about 56 hp. On the second hit, or maybe the third, he's going down. If the retriever rolls high on damage, and he fails his save, it could kill him in a single zap, whereas even a max-damage zap won't take down the Fighter11.

 

[Khafre]

The DMG has a chart that shows the average GP value worth of "stuff" that individuals should have at each level. You don't have to follow it of course, some DM's like item-heavy campaigns.

IMHO, if your 6th level characters are running around with '+3 everything', they should be treated as higher levels for xp / CR purposes (or otherwise adjusted to compensate), because with loads of +3 goods, they are far tougher than the rules expect 6th level characters to be.

Likewise, if they spend an usually large part of their money on things that are useless for the official xp purposes (homes, clothing, maps, non-combat camp gear, gifts, etc), then that could shift things the other way - the rules mainly give xp based on hostile (or potentially hostile) encounters so the houses they own 300 miles away don't exactly help them out.

 

[Tranzquility]

alright i got the encounter already planed out for tomorrow the boss encounter any ways

its a retreiver.... i am needing a daemon as there boss encounter for plot lign

if i take away there items will they stand any chance agenst a cr10 if not what should i put them up agenst......

 

[Tranzquility]

basicly what i am asking is if i take there items away wich i am going to do though in game i have already got it planed out if i do it.will they be able to stand up agenst a retreaver a cr 10 daemon and if not what CR or Daemon should i give them..... it is a boss type encounter so i want the encounter to be fairly hard for them.....

 

[Testament]

...i threw at them some lizzard folk Cr1 per each lizzard and there was 7 of them total so a average party level of 5 right vs an encounter level of 7 i figured it would be a 1/1 decent battle well of course not they martched over them

That's not EL 7. That's an EL of around 4.

EL is not a linear progression, otherwise 40 Kobolds would be an EL of 10, and no-one's gonna argue that 40 Kobolds is any kind of challenge to a 10th level party.