D&D 4E What will happen if 4E doesn't use the OGL?

[Jürgen Hubert]

I think you may see the proverbial gloves come off. On both 'sides'. While nobody wants to mess with an 800 pound gorilla, I may take my chances if I have a tranquilizer gun.
Metaphors aside, what I mean is that it has seemed like many groups (publishers) have played nice with WotC. Nobody has produced a seperate experience table (that I know of). Nobody has produced seperate character generation steps.

At the top of my mind, I can remember the Everquest RPG, Mutants & Masterminds, and True20 doing all these. There are probably quite a few more.

But none of these games are D&D, and thus simply can't be as successfull. No matter what happens, the owner of the D&D licence will dominate the field for the foreseeable future.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

It seems likely that someone is going to produce unofficial 4e material. From my understanding (IANAL), the case law looks pretty weak for WotC's side.

The question is not whether third-party publishers could win a lawsuit over this. The question is whether they could afford a lawsuit.

Fighting a lawsuit costs lots of time and money. And in the end, Hasbro has more of those than other gaming companies out there. Do these other companies really want to risk getting involved in lengthy lawsuits for fairly meager possible profits?

 

[DragonLancer]

If 4th ed doesn't come with an updated OGL then I think that the 3.x publishers will continue to support those of us who decide to stick with 3.X over 4th ed.

 

[Odhanan]

That's probably the most likely occurrence. WotC will probably still get the majority of the customers, but a 3.5 OGL game will have a strong following for a very long time.

And I'd be a client for the latter, personally.

I always thought that a big part of the popularity of D&D comes from... its popularity and the shared experience that comes with it. Basically, wherever you go, a group of gamers you'd find there would most likely play D&D, and if you explain RPGs to a newbie, they'll be more likely to know D&D and understand concepts like dungeon crawling, XPs, levels, et cetera. More power for you as a gamer.

3.X through the OGL (and its huge number of variants and refinements for all tastes and styles) became such a phenomenon that I can hardly believe a huge proportion of gamers would just follow the move of 4E and give up on the OGL, particularly since it is not revocable and there still will be some people to publish stuff for it, at least during the years of transition.

What matters then is how 4E is perceived when compared to the huge mass of OGL variants, adaptability, popularity and shared experience out there. If 4E breaks from 3E in radical ways then a schism, at least for the following years after its release, is a sure bet. If it follows 3E closely, most gamers would probably just move on with the game... or would they? If third-party publishers rival Wizards in quality, and the OGL stuff being published is good, varied, for the same price range and satisfies most styles of gaming out there, this could make a lot of people think twice, I think.

 

[drothgery]

Really, I wouldn't be surprised if WotC whips up a new set of licenses to replace the OGL and d20 STL for 4.x. I don't think many third party publishers did what Wizard's hoped or expected them to do; Wizards wanted products that supported D&D (and d20 Modern), but a lot of the biggest OGL success stories have been standalone games. I doubt they'd go back to a completely closed system like pre-3.x, but I do expect 4.x to be less open.

 

[Bardsandsages]

The question is not whether third-party publishers could win a lawsuit over this. The question is whether they could afford a lawsuit.

Fighting a lawsuit costs lots of time and money. And in the end, Hasbro has more of those than other gaming companies out there. Do these other companies really want to risk getting involved in lengthy lawsuits for fairly meager possible profits?

It costs more to defend against a lawsuit that to file one. Many lawyers only get paid if they win. I'm sure the right publishers could find the right blood-thirsty sharks to go after a money machine like Hasbro. And as a publically traded company, investors might get nervous is Hasbro gets hit with a series of lawsuits suddenly. Bad press is sometimes worse than the actual legal problems.

Not stirring the pot or anything. Just saying.

 

[jasin]

Metaphors aside, what I mean is that it has seemed like many groups (publishers) have played nice with WotC. Nobody has produced a seperate experience table (that I know of). Nobody has produced seperate character generation steps.

I know Arcana Evolved and Iron Heroes both included character generation and advancement rules, and I think there were others (BESM, Black Company...?)

WotC didn't seem particularly bothered by that, and Arcana Evolved is pretty much as close as you can get to D&D without actually infringing on WotC IP.

 

[hong]

I know Arcana Evolved and Iron Heroes both included character generation and advancement rules, and I think there were others (BESM, Black Company...?)

WotC didn't seem particularly bothered by that, and Arcana Evolved is pretty much as close as you can get to D&D without actually infringing on WotC IP.

Yeah, but neither AE nor IH used the d20 logo. It's the d20 license that prohibits you from including chargen, not the OGL.

 

[BluSponge]

What do you think will happen if that comes to pass?

Not much, actually. Most of the surviving d20 companies have moved to variant OGL games by now, and have worked hard to build fanbases so as to survive another WotC shake up. So unless people are buying True20 to incorporate into their DnD game (possible, but unlikely), these companies will make do.

4e will probably be better for it. There will be a lot more quality control and a lot less "glut" early on. Even so, the needs of the DnD eco-system remain, and I expect WotC will offer a few choice licenses for companies to produce adventures (though probably not splatbooks). This would keep companies like Paizo, Goodman and Necromancer in the game, and while WotC will probably produce some big adventures of its own, it will need the time to build the core essentials again.

Tom

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

It costs more to defend against a lawsuit that to file one. Many lawyers only get paid if they win. I'm sure the right publishers could find the right blood-thirsty sharks to go after a money machine like Hasbro. And as a publically traded company, investors might get nervous is Hasbro gets hit with a series of lawsuits suddenly. Bad press is sometimes worse than the actual legal problems.

Not stirring the pot or anything. Just saying.

These hypothetical companies have nothing they could sue WotC over. I mean, yes, that doesn't stop them from filing the lawsuits... But purely frivolous lawsuits that aren't backed with decent amounts of money will have little impact on WotC.

And frankly, I think most small-time gaming companies have better things to do with their limited resources.