What's a "unique being" for purposes of Gate?

[MerakSpielman]

You know, it would be amusing to let Gate summon an outsider of any HD. Except there's a catch. You both roll an opposing check (where the bonus is caster level of the wizard and HD of the critter). If you make the check, the creature is bound to your service per the normal spell description. If you fail the check, it instantly attacks you.

 

[Gez]

Funnier: If you fail the check, you are bound to the service of the creature.

 

[Li Shenron]

As written, the spell seems to describe three groups:
(1) a kind of being (pit fiend, human, etc.)
(2) a particular being/known individual (Aublos the Flyblown, Velendo of Calphas)
(3) a deity or unique being

It's unclear if the definition of "unique" extends to "Aublos" or "Velendo," but finding that word's placement next to "deity" is suspect.

It always sounded quite clear to me: you can pull through a specific individual who you identify by name, unless it's a deity or something close to it.

I don't think it's easy to fix a general rule for "unique", but definitely class levels, templates and Hd advancement are not enough (and they can also be campaign-dependent: in one campaign there might be one only legendary abyssal wolf, in another there may be hundreds). But I don't think it's either necessary to do so.
I would simply let the DM choose when an individual is powerful enough on the cosmic scale to resist this effect; when the PCs are high level enough to cast Gate, the BBEG who's probably 20th level or more may or may not be "unique", depending if calling him destroys the plot of the game or enhances it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I want to be unambiguously clear about this. If a PC tries to call forth any pit fiend, the pit fiend gets no choice. If they want to call forth Helbringoth, Vassal to Asmodeus, does he have a choice? The second sentence of the first paragraph above makes it seem like he doesn't. . . but the third sentence seems to contradict this.

Thanks for any advice!

A unique being is a being that is named. You are a unique being; I am a unique being. Gate cannot be used to transport a particular target unless that target is willing. The sentences that you quote offer an overall statement of what the spell does, followed by specific information. I'd go with the specific information.

The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling. Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, although they may choose to do so of their own accord. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures. This use of the spell has an XP cost (see below).​

Note also that "extraplanar" means "from another plane" not "outsider". If you follow some other interpretations of this spell, it means that Demon Bob and Demon Joe should be able to forcibly Gate in the PCs one at a time, and make them act "to their aid" by forcing them to fight each other to the death.

EDIT: Just went back and realized that I'm not the first person to make the above point. And, while there may be consequences to casting too many [Good] spells, there isn't a rule I know of that says an [Evil] being can't do it. Or do your orc clerics not use healing spells on themselves?

IMHO, the specific mention of "deities" as well as unique beings is to prevent a character from gating in "a god" (class of creature) as opposed to "Pelor" (unique creature) and having it work.




RC

 

[Sithobi1]

Under that interpretation, everyone needs to be willing, because no one is exactly the same; even birds and worms have different entities, so they would all be unique.

 

[MerakSpielman]

EDIT: Just went back and realized that I'm not the first person to make the above point. And, while there may be consequences to casting too many [Good] spells, there isn't a rule I know of that says an [Evil] being can't do it. Or do your orc clerics not use healing spells on themselves?

Cure and Inflict spells do not have the [Good] or [Evil] descriptors.

 

[blargney the second]

I prefer to summon cocoadaemons.

"Mmmm, red hot chocolate-y goodness!"

Evilness, not goodness. There are no marshmallows.

(Interesting word overlay with the "red hot"! )
-blarg

 

[Raven Crowking]

Under that interpretation, everyone needs to be willing, because no one is exactly the same; even birds and worms have different entities, so they would all be unique.

Not so.

When choosing a target, you can choose "pit fiend". You are targetting a being of a particular type. When choosing a target, you can choose "Bob the Pit Fiend from Dowtown Dispator." Now you are targetting an individual.

If you are merely targetting a type, it is easy to say that the spell simply chooses a suitable target, thereby removing the question of willingness. The exception to this case is that there is no suitable target of the broad category "deity".

If you target Bob, Bob may or may not be willing, and thus the question of saving throws, etc.

One might further assume that when a demon, say, attempts to Gate in other demons, it is making the attempt from a pool of affiliated demons. The percentage chance of success is therefore based on whether or not the demons it has attempted to gate are willing, and/or succeed in their saving throws if not.


RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Cure and Inflict spells do not have the [Good] or [Evil] descriptors.

No, but casting healing spells is a good act.

And, also, that doesn't answer my question, does it?


RC

 

[saucercrab]

Are there outsiders that have gate as a spell-like ability?

-RedShirt

:shrugs: I dunno'. Just wanted to know what PC was basing that statement on.

Although specific demon lords & archdevils could have the ability...