When a man plays a woman

[Zhaleskra]

I'm physically male, and growing up, most friends my age were female. This made my brain a lot more female than male, though not so far as being transgender. Stereotypical men have been put off when I'm not into male stereotype hobbies.

I've played female characters for cliche reasons, and also sometimes because certain roles just seem like they'd appeal more to a woman in a fantasy setting.

Also, I've had players play female characters, and yes, some of them did play off the stereotypes. The "lesbian stripper ninja" has never crossed any table I've been at, but I've heard the rumors.

 

[darkrose50]

These conversations always irk me.

We play as all sorts of things that we are not.

I am not a dwarf, I am not an elf, I am not a wizard, and I am not someone who fights ing dragons.

Women should not be considered stranger than a ing dwarf or elf fighting a flying fire breathing dinosaur while armed with fairy tale magical powers and a pointed metal stick!

Q: is a woman a person?
A: Yes.
Q: Then what is your ing problem?

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Edit: Looking at more of the thread it is not playing another sex that is the problem for some of you, it is other bat-guano-crazy-pants stuff that is the problem.

This is like saying that Chrismass trees should be banned because people put candles ON FIRE on them. Just ban the flaming candles on the Chrismass trees, not the god forsaken trees themselves!

 

[Morrus]

These conversations always irk me.

We play as all sorts of things that we are not.

I am not a dwarf, I am not an elf, I am not a wizard, and I am not someone who fights ing dragons.

Women should not be considered stranger than a ing dwarf or elf fighting a flying fire breathing dinosaur while armed with fairy tale magical powers and a pointed metal stick!

Q: is a woman a person?
A: Yes.
Q: Then what is your ing problem?

-----

Edit: Looking at more of the thread it is not playing another sex that is the problem for some of you, it is other bat-guano-crazy-pants stuff that is the problem.

This is like saying that Chrismass trees should be banned because people put candles ON FIRE on them. Just ban the flaming candles on the tree, not the god forsaken tree itself.

Watch the profanity, please.

 

[darkrose50]

Do the smiley faces not show up with an optional setting?

 

[darkrose50]

If we're honest about it Gender in general is pretty "make believe". The idea that babies should be dressed in blue or pink, or be ascribed certain stereotypes. That is definitely make believe. The idea that people will identify with certain archetypes over another, when we insist those archetypes exist, is not. It's a thing. You can't say that only trans identities are invalid when the whole concept of Gender isn't exactly a tangible thing.

Flower names used to be male names.

 

[darkrose50]

This should sum up the whole answer to this silly question.

"I've always considered women to be people."
-George R.R. Martin

http://www.upworthy.com/why-it-shouldnt-be-difficult-to-write-believable-female-characters

 

[Eltab]

Flower names used to be male names.

I feel sorry for the boys who had to learn to spell 'Chrysanthemum' or "Rhododendron' and put that at the top of every page of homework they wrote / turned in.

Come to think of it, I feel sorry for any girl whose parents did that to them, too.

 

[Sunseeker]

I feel sorry for the boys who had to learn to spell 'Chrysanthemum' or "Rhododendron' and put that at the top of every page of homework they wrote / turned in.

Come to think of it, I feel sorry for any girl whose parents did that to them, too.

I feel sorry for anyone just having to learn it in biology! But I think they meant common flower names as opposed to scientific ones. Like "Rose" and such.

 

[Celebrim]

This should sum up the whole answer to this silly question.

"I've always considered women to be people."
-George R.R. Martin

http://www.upworthy.com/why-it-shouldnt-be-difficult-to-write-believable-female-characters

I wish it was that simple. I basically agree with GRR Martin here, in that I create female characters in exactly the same way I create male characters. I have a thread nearby where I'm creating NPCs for a Jann/Arabian setting, and for every purpose but physical description I could switch the gender of any character and feel I had basically the same character with the same utility to the setting.

But I have a female friend who would not be satisfied by that, and who I know would reject that as good characterization on those very grounds. She believes that if a character's gender could be altered without altering the character, that it's poor characterization. She would consider virtually all of my characters inherently masculine. It wouldn't offend her per se, that my female characters aren't to her believably feminine, but it would mean that she considers them rather poor characters.

For example, I felt that Jyn from Rogue One was a vastly better character than Rey from The Force Awakens in every manner. She was more believable; she was more complex; she had an actual narrative and emotional arc; she was competent but not ludicrously so; she was allowed to fail at times, and she had believable and sympathetic motivations. She was also IMO much wiser than Rey and had much better and more quotable lines.

However, my female friend felt that Jyn was a poor character because in no fashion did she feel feminine to her. If Jyn were male, basically nothing Jyn did would be different. On the other hand, characters like Ripley, are generally universally received as both admirable and memorable 'kick butt' heroines, because you can't change Ripley's gender without changing the character and the meaning of the story.

This sets two standards, and meeting both is very hard. Some people demand characters have qualities that make them uniquely gendered or have a uniquely gendered perspective. Others will feel that if you do this, it's sexist precisely because of that. While, at the same time, the first group will feel its demeaning or sexist if you don't.

Note that these two standards can be seriously at odds even if the author is of the same gender as the critic. My friend would probably find Isabella Swan a gendered and thus respectful character. While others would feel that her gender issues are too overt and stereotypical.

I try to set the bar much lower in terms of what is 'good enough'.

 

[aramis erak]

These conversations always irk me.

We play as all sorts of things that we are not.

I am not a dwarf, I am not an elf, I am not a wizard, and I am not someone who fights [bleep]ing dragons.

Women should not be considered stranger than a [bleep]ing dwarf or elf fighting a flying fire breathing dinosaur while armed with fairy tale magical powers and a pointed metal stick!

The differences between elves and dwarves and men and halflings in most settings is less than the difference between male and female in any given group of them. Gender isn't just about presence/absence of enlarged breasts, a vagina, a uterus, or a phallus... if it were, (1) there wouldn't be the social unrest over LGBTQ issues (on both sides), and (2) there wouldn't be the clear gender roles that are both fairly uniform and near universal amongst primitive human societies. Oh, (3) and there wouldn't be the clear gender roles in other primates, either.

The difference between male elf, male dwarf, and male human is size and shape, and preferred foods, at least in tolkien, and the elves tend to be a bit effeminate. Just a bit. Oh, and lifespan.

The difference between female elf, female dwarf, and female human is again, size and shape, and (for elves) lifespan.

In Tolkien, Brooks, Weiss, Hickman, and even in many other authors works, the differences in behavior by gender are bigger than the differences by subspecies.

Me, I'm uncomfortable playing across the gender line - not because I can't do it, but because I can readily envisage what it means to be a male dwarf, who's prospects for love are likely to be "Give up on female dwarves, because there aren't enough to go around"... but I can't readily envisage what it means to be female. It's less of a role change.

Likewise, I know what it feels like to hunt and to fight - I can extrapolte from there easier to dragons than I can to "seductress"...