JacktheRabbit
Explorer
Benben said:
Yeah, I keep forgetting that on ocassion. Need to start taking Sunder more for my foes.
When characters loot the bodies of other characters
Yeah, I keep forgetting that on ocassion. Need to start taking Sunder more for my foes.
shilsen
Adventurer
RedSwan78 and Benben have listed the two solutions I prefer. If the PCs are way over their appropriate wealth levels, the adventures in their immediate future provide less treasure than usual. And it also means that I can cut loose with sunder and other tactics aimed at their equipment, without worrying about seriously handicapping them. Problem solved.
Wraithdrit
First Post
DocMoriartty said:
Don't you mean Improved Sunder?
diaglo
Adventurer
to the victor goes the spoils.
in this case to the surviving party members.
it makes sense to a player who games in a world full of magic and monsters to take useful items off a dead comrade.
so it would make sense for a character who wants to survive to do the same thing.
as a DM if you don't want the party to have them. then don't put them into their hands.
edit: now that you have done it. tax the heck out of them. make them use up potions, scrolls, charges on small encounters. make them short of funds, ergo they decide to sell some of their magic. make the items visible to thieves. make a noble ask for services. make the church demand a tithe. or a guild or a mentor or etc...
there are ways to get them out of the PCs hands.
in this case to the surviving party members.
it makes sense to a player who games in a world full of magic and monsters to take useful items off a dead comrade.
so it would make sense for a character who wants to survive to do the same thing.
as a DM if you don't want the party to have them. then don't put them into their hands.
edit: now that you have done it. tax the heck out of them. make them use up potions, scrolls, charges on small encounters. make them short of funds, ergo they decide to sell some of their magic. make the items visible to thieves. make a noble ask for services. make the church demand a tithe. or a guild or a mentor or etc...
there are ways to get them out of the PCs hands.
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Benben
First Post
DocMoriartty said:
I would also recommend introducing a "Sure Breaking" enhancement similar to the DR destroying "Sure Striking." Any weapon with this +1 equivalent bonus is considred a +5 weapon for the purposes of breaking weapons and items.
I'm partial to using sunder whenever a character becomes defined by their gear rather than their personality or abilities.
shilsen's advice of monitoring the party's loot intake is also wise and the combination of the two is very effective.
Tzarevitch
First Post
Cultural norms for the setting can take care of this problem. I run a Rokugan game where is is cultural tabboo to touch the dead much less steal from them. Society shuns you for doing it and the ghosts of the ancestors DO return to haunt those responsible.
The PCs in my game have never done it (I explained the cultural tabboo when I started the campaign) but the means I had planned to use include:
1) The dead person's ghost returns and plagues him. It appears by him in a particularly public place and accuses him of theft. This causes the character's personal honor to be called into question and NPC reactions plummet.
2) Have the ghost curse (like the old Ravenloft dramatic curses) what was stolen to cause sorrow for the thief in equal measure to the benefit the thief would have received. (i.e. a +2 weapon becomes a -2 weapon and the character automatically draws it whenever he would reach for another weapon). The curse lasts until the character receives absolution from the ghost and either returns it or gets the ghost's permission to keep it. Note in both this case and #1 above, the ghost should not be permanently destroyable. It should return every night/week/few days until it is put to rest by the PC asking its forgiveness and either returning the property or getting the ghost's permission to keep it.
3) If the setting has a God of the Dead, have him and his agents start punishing those who defile the dead. He can send an agent who can substitute for the ghost in either 1 or 2 above or assign some other more appropriate punishment. This one should not be personalized unlike the above two because it looks like DM is conspiring against the player. Have the deity's agents publicly take several NPCs to task and give the PC time to get the hint before they come to him.
4) If the setting has an authority with advanced laws (either temple or state) unless the dead PC had a will that specifically states that the party members are entitled to his stuff, the relatives of the deceased can start a legal claim for the property as the deceased PCs legal heirs. Honestly, the relatives can start a legal proceeding even if there IS a will by claiming it isn't legitimate (not his signature, signature wasn't witnessed, not properly certified by the local authorities etc.)
A probate proceeding requires the authority to make an accounting of the property before it can determine the owner. They can demand that the character turn the property over to them for safekeeping until the proceeding is concluded. This option can be interesting and allows for opportunities for roleplay as the PCs have to defend their interest in court if they want to keep the property.
The Rokugan setting avoids this problem because most magic items are "nemuranai" (sp?), temporary items that work ONLY for the person who owns them. They become magical on their own because a hero (or anti-hero) owns them and they can turn themselved off just as easily.
Stealing these magic items is pointless because the kami (elemental spirit inside of it) that makes it temporarily magic won't do anything for anyone other than its owner. So stealing that +5 vorpal nemuranai from its owner only gets you a masterwork sword.
Tzarevitch
The PCs in my game have never done it (I explained the cultural tabboo when I started the campaign) but the means I had planned to use include:
1) The dead person's ghost returns and plagues him. It appears by him in a particularly public place and accuses him of theft. This causes the character's personal honor to be called into question and NPC reactions plummet.
2) Have the ghost curse (like the old Ravenloft dramatic curses) what was stolen to cause sorrow for the thief in equal measure to the benefit the thief would have received. (i.e. a +2 weapon becomes a -2 weapon and the character automatically draws it whenever he would reach for another weapon). The curse lasts until the character receives absolution from the ghost and either returns it or gets the ghost's permission to keep it. Note in both this case and #1 above, the ghost should not be permanently destroyable. It should return every night/week/few days until it is put to rest by the PC asking its forgiveness and either returning the property or getting the ghost's permission to keep it.
3) If the setting has a God of the Dead, have him and his agents start punishing those who defile the dead. He can send an agent who can substitute for the ghost in either 1 or 2 above or assign some other more appropriate punishment. This one should not be personalized unlike the above two because it looks like DM is conspiring against the player. Have the deity's agents publicly take several NPCs to task and give the PC time to get the hint before they come to him.
4) If the setting has an authority with advanced laws (either temple or state) unless the dead PC had a will that specifically states that the party members are entitled to his stuff, the relatives of the deceased can start a legal claim for the property as the deceased PCs legal heirs. Honestly, the relatives can start a legal proceeding even if there IS a will by claiming it isn't legitimate (not his signature, signature wasn't witnessed, not properly certified by the local authorities etc.)
A probate proceeding requires the authority to make an accounting of the property before it can determine the owner. They can demand that the character turn the property over to them for safekeeping until the proceeding is concluded. This option can be interesting and allows for opportunities for roleplay as the PCs have to defend their interest in court if they want to keep the property.
The Rokugan setting avoids this problem because most magic items are "nemuranai" (sp?), temporary items that work ONLY for the person who owns them. They become magical on their own because a hero (or anti-hero) owns them and they can turn themselved off just as easily.
Stealing these magic items is pointless because the kami (elemental spirit inside of it) that makes it temporarily magic won't do anything for anyone other than its owner. So stealing that +5 vorpal nemuranai from its owner only gets you a masterwork sword.
Tzarevitch
Gez
First Post
Rust Monster, Monster Manual page 157.
Ethereal Filcher, Monster Manual page 87.
Folugub, Psionics Handbook page 146.
Disenchanter, Tome of Horrors page 107 and Fiend Folio page __ (fill in the blank, I don't have that book yet).
And some less obvious:
Nightwalker, Monster Manual page 142.
Bebilith Demon, Monster Manual page 44.
Caryatid Column, Tome of Horrors page 33 and Fiend Folio page __ (fill in the blank, I don't have that book yet).
Oozes, Monster Manual page 145 (and various other oozes in various other books).
Slarecian Dragon, Creature Collection 2, page 61.
There are other creatures worthy of mention, for example Creature Collection's Miser Jackal will steal metallic items. And to temporarily conclude this non-exhaustive list, the Blackguard has the Sunder (soon to be renamed Improved Sunder) feat as a prerequisite...
As a sidenote, when a character botch a save against a spell, take that opportunity to read again the page 150 of the Player's Handbook. You'll soon discover that, with a bit of ill will, the player characters will run in your dungeon naked, unarmed, unarmored, and without their lunch money.
Ethereal Filcher, Monster Manual page 87.
Folugub, Psionics Handbook page 146.
Disenchanter, Tome of Horrors page 107 and Fiend Folio page __ (fill in the blank, I don't have that book yet).
And some less obvious:
Nightwalker, Monster Manual page 142.
Bebilith Demon, Monster Manual page 44.
Caryatid Column, Tome of Horrors page 33 and Fiend Folio page __ (fill in the blank, I don't have that book yet).
Oozes, Monster Manual page 145 (and various other oozes in various other books).
Slarecian Dragon, Creature Collection 2, page 61.
There are other creatures worthy of mention, for example Creature Collection's Miser Jackal will steal metallic items. And to temporarily conclude this non-exhaustive list, the Blackguard has the Sunder (soon to be renamed Improved Sunder) feat as a prerequisite...
As a sidenote, when a character botch a save against a spell, take that opportunity to read again the page 150 of the Player's Handbook. You'll soon discover that, with a bit of ill will, the player characters will run in your dungeon naked, unarmed, unarmored, and without their lunch money.
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Bran Blackbyrd
Explorer
Hand of Evil said:
You mean there are other channels?
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