I don't think evil would try to channel the destructive power of the berzerker at all costs. Evil characters (to me) always look out for their own interests. If the berzerker is a risk to his/her life, then an evil character will wipe him out quickly. Evil does not equal stupid.
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Which alignment would kill the frenzied berserker in his sleep? Choose all that apply
- Thread starter frankthedm
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KingCrab said:
The same evil makes powerful Clerics who worship destructive deities like nerul and many of the patrons of the abyss and other wise? The same mad mages (who can safely distance themselves from a FB with a fly and invisibility spell) that dms in my experience have had worshiping some horrible HP love craft monster for power? Again by comparison with some of the crazy things I've seen the DM's I've know (who shell remain nameless) A frenzy B. as a party member is a stroll in the park. Evil characters flock to powerful sources that produce results by necessity. Now I'm not saying these are life long bonds of friend ship.... But one can not over look the importance of pure brute destructive force. How about in a campaign setting with the forces of evil are on the run.. and must resort to more drastic measures for survival.
DM's routinely introduce things like worshiping sinister dietys who's track records for rewarding followers isn't always the greatest. In the realm of evil sometimes it boils down to simply who's available. If that man happens to be a blood lusting seething lunatic with an great axe who gets results.... So be it. Of course if the situation where to improve I imagine the bezerker may have out lived his usefulness.
Now do forgive me for missing the mark in the question sense it's who would kill the Bezerker in his sleep. Would not evil be the most reluctant for fear if they failed the horrible consequences? I mean if you want to eye ball the question an evil character would kill anyone in his sleep if it would amuse him for a split second and thought he could get away with it.
A hardened good character (who's given in to fluxing his alignment ) would kill many questionable people in his sleep if he thought it was for the greater good. If you want to be technical about it.
A fearful N.N character might do the same if a over powered individual potentially might grow to off set the balance of the world. (A powerful mage sleeping who may one day grow to be a tyrant).
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delericho
Legend
As mentioned above, alignment is descriptive rather the proscriptive. Consequently, a member of any alignment could slit the FB's throat in his sleep. However, that doesn't change the alignment of the action itself.
Assuming the question was instead "assuming a character is acting within his normal alignment, which alignments could..." I vote that only an Evil character could kill the FB like that simply for being an FB. A Good character should instead be seeking help for the FB.
However, once the FB has engaged in one of the trademark rampages of the class, matters rather change. In this instance, even a Good character might be convinced that death is the appropriate response. Until such a rampage occurred, though, a Good character cannot be swayed by what might happen - because there's no actual reason that the FB might not have it under control.
I'm also inclined to think that any Lawful alignment would balk at killing the guy in his sleep. Instead, I would expect such character would insist on randering the FB helpless while he slept, then waking him and proceeding from there. A LE character is likely to want to explain why the FB has to die, if only to prolong his suffering. A LN character would demand that the FB get a chance to defend himself, while a LG character would object to killing a sleeping opponent on principle except where no other option is available (which doesn't apply here). Also, betraying a friend by killing himself while he slept would be incompatible with the character of any LG person I've ever encountered, no matter how deserved and necessary the action was.
Assuming the question was instead "assuming a character is acting within his normal alignment, which alignments could..." I vote that only an Evil character could kill the FB like that simply for being an FB. A Good character should instead be seeking help for the FB.
However, once the FB has engaged in one of the trademark rampages of the class, matters rather change. In this instance, even a Good character might be convinced that death is the appropriate response. Until such a rampage occurred, though, a Good character cannot be swayed by what might happen - because there's no actual reason that the FB might not have it under control.
I'm also inclined to think that any Lawful alignment would balk at killing the guy in his sleep. Instead, I would expect such character would insist on randering the FB helpless while he slept, then waking him and proceeding from there. A LE character is likely to want to explain why the FB has to die, if only to prolong his suffering. A LN character would demand that the FB get a chance to defend himself, while a LG character would object to killing a sleeping opponent on principle except where no other option is available (which doesn't apply here). Also, betraying a friend by killing himself while he slept would be incompatible with the character of any LG person I've ever encountered, no matter how deserved and necessary the action was.
frankthedm
First Post
Ok, this post is for those who might not know the mechanics of the Frenzied berserker
Why is he a risk? Why not just avoid going into a frenzy in the first place*? To avoid entering a frenzy in response to a provoking effect [Things that the deal damage], the character must make a successful Will save (DC 10 + points of damage taken since her last action) at the start of her next turn. [will is not a good save for the class BTW]
The frenzy ability boosts strength a fair amount [+6 upgrading later to +10], deals user 2 non lethal damage a round, stacks with rage and acts like rage [ lasts 3+ con mod, fatigued when frenzy ends, combo rage and frenzy and you get exhausted rather than fatigued when frenzy ends].
During a frenzy, the frenzied berserker must attack those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability. Should she run out of enemies before her frenzy expires, her rampage continues. She must then attack the nearest creature (determine randomly if several potential foes are equidistant) and fight that opponent without regard to friendship, innocence, or health (the target 's or her own). BTW, the class’s second level ability is taking a 5’ step between attacks using cleave/great cleave so slicing into allies can happen very quickly.
Frenzy cannot be ended at the character’s choosing. To end it, the F.B. has to roll a DC 20 will save that can be attempted once a round as a free action.
As for why “Kill him in his sleep”? Because 4th level of FB the character cannot die while frenzying except by massive damage saves and other effects that outright kill the target. Most attempts at challenges and fair fights with a F.B. are greatsword assisted seppuku. Binding someone who can gain +10 to +14 to STR might not be too reliable either.
*The class’s real power comes from increasing power attack output, 3 for 1 with a 2 handed weapon at 5th level of the PRC up to 4 for 1 [with a 2 hander] at 10th.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
Why is he a risk? Why not just avoid going into a frenzy in the first place*? To avoid entering a frenzy in response to a provoking effect [Things that the deal damage], the character must make a successful Will save (DC 10 + points of damage taken since her last action) at the start of her next turn. [will is not a good save for the class BTW]
The frenzy ability boosts strength a fair amount [+6 upgrading later to +10], deals user 2 non lethal damage a round, stacks with rage and acts like rage [ lasts 3+ con mod, fatigued when frenzy ends, combo rage and frenzy and you get exhausted rather than fatigued when frenzy ends].
During a frenzy, the frenzied berserker must attack those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability. Should she run out of enemies before her frenzy expires, her rampage continues. She must then attack the nearest creature (determine randomly if several potential foes are equidistant) and fight that opponent without regard to friendship, innocence, or health (the target 's or her own). BTW, the class’s second level ability is taking a 5’ step between attacks using cleave/great cleave so slicing into allies can happen very quickly.
Frenzy cannot be ended at the character’s choosing. To end it, the F.B. has to roll a DC 20 will save that can be attempted once a round as a free action.
As for why “Kill him in his sleep”? Because 4th level of FB the character cannot die while frenzying except by massive damage saves and other effects that outright kill the target. Most attempts at challenges and fair fights with a F.B. are greatsword assisted seppuku. Binding someone who can gain +10 to +14 to STR might not be too reliable either.
*The class’s real power comes from increasing power attack output, 3 for 1 with a 2 handed weapon at 5th level of the PRC up to 4 for 1 [with a 2 hander] at 10th.
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All of them - it can be rationalized for every alignment
Isn't this a weak argument sense a collective pack of gamers could rationalize just about anything given enough incentive for any alignment as long as it would be more convenient.
This reminds me of the old "what is do be done with the orc child and or Children" argument one of my old "friends" (who shell remain nameless) got off on constantly throwing at the party to see party members have to struggle with the moral dilemma.
Any alignment could with enough work justify killing the child (specially the races like elf and drawf seemed to get a wink from said DM) for saying "Out right kill the bugger." With perhaps the accept. of the Pal.
Doing right, isn’t the same as being right. You would be right to kill the FB in his sleep. But no, it would not be the right thing to do. What would the Knight do? Ask yourself what an honorable soul do first. (Hm that is a fine question? What would the class who puts personal honor over the well fair of others do? Certainly he would not resort to taking advantage of a downed foe.)
Isn't this a weak argument sense a collective pack of gamers could rationalize just about anything given enough incentive for any alignment as long as it would be more convenient.
This reminds me of the old "what is do be done with the orc child and or Children" argument one of my old "friends" (who shell remain nameless) got off on constantly throwing at the party to see party members have to struggle with the moral dilemma.
Any alignment could with enough work justify killing the child (specially the races like elf and drawf seemed to get a wink from said DM) for saying "Out right kill the bugger." With perhaps the accept. of the Pal.
Doing right, isn’t the same as being right. You would be right to kill the FB in his sleep. But no, it would not be the right thing to do. What would the Knight do? Ask yourself what an honorable soul do first. (Hm that is a fine question? What would the class who puts personal honor over the well fair of others do? Certainly he would not resort to taking advantage of a downed foe.)
Sammael
Adventurer
A LG character would probably attempt to at least make it look like an execution (though he will have no compunctions to chaining the FB in his sleep after getting the party spellcaster to magically hold him).
A LN or LE character would consider himself to be the judge, jury, and executioner in this case. He would have no problem justifying the killing, because the FB is a danger to the society.
A NG character would try to stop the FB by nonviolent or violent means, but I don't think he'd ever kill FB in his sleep. On the other hand, if push came to shove, I don't think a NG character would stop other party members from doing the deed.
A N character is primarily concerned about his own well-being, as long as his actions don't harm others. The threat to his well-being here far outweighs his unwillingness to do evil, and he'd kill the FB without remorse.
A NE character would probably try to kill the FB in his sleep, then blame some other partye member for doing it (in case the FB survives the murder attempt).
A CG or CN character would probably consider it a mercy-killing, as the FB is no longer a person but a rabied beast.
A CE character would gleefully bind the FB in his sleep, then torture him for a while (to have him enter a rage and then be unable to break himself free), and then grow bored and coup de grace him. Note that he would do this to other party members as well.
A LN or LE character would consider himself to be the judge, jury, and executioner in this case. He would have no problem justifying the killing, because the FB is a danger to the society.
A NG character would try to stop the FB by nonviolent or violent means, but I don't think he'd ever kill FB in his sleep. On the other hand, if push came to shove, I don't think a NG character would stop other party members from doing the deed.
A N character is primarily concerned about his own well-being, as long as his actions don't harm others. The threat to his well-being here far outweighs his unwillingness to do evil, and he'd kill the FB without remorse.
A NE character would probably try to kill the FB in his sleep, then blame some other partye member for doing it (in case the FB survives the murder attempt).
A CG or CN character would probably consider it a mercy-killing, as the FB is no longer a person but a rabied beast.
A CE character would gleefully bind the FB in his sleep, then torture him for a while (to have him enter a rage and then be unable to break himself free), and then grow bored and coup de grace him. Note that he would do this to other party members as well.
Kristivas
First Post
We had someone play the class and that very thing happened. We slew the foes, and then he attacked the paladin. Rather than let him kill us off, we all beat the hell out of him. Though the paladin went down, we managed to save him (neg 8 when we finally got a heal on him) and when the rage ended, the FB died outright.
I think it's a real overpowered class. 5 characters beating on 1 over and over while taking massive damage is nuts.
I think it's a real overpowered class. 5 characters beating on 1 over and over while taking massive damage is nuts.
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