D&D 5E Which parts of D&D came from Tolkien?

[Maxperson]

The thing that annoys me is the thought that if your character does something "inspiring" then they must be a Warlord. Samwise Gamgee does something inspiring so must be a Warlord. Gandalf does something inspiring so must be a Warlord.

Want your character to say something inspiring? Are you playing a Warlord? So, no you can not.

No kidding.

 

[Hussar]

I'm not really sure which came first, the warlord or Aragorn.

But, the truth is, the warlord class (not the dictionary definition) fits Aragorn really, really well. It works excellently. Now, people may not like the Warlord, and that's perfectly fine. But, it can model Aragorn extremely well. As well as modeling any other "captain" type character that inspires those around him or her.

The issues with the warlord had nothing to do with failing to model an archetype.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not really sure which came first, the warlord or Aragorn.

But, the truth is, the warlord class (not the dictionary definition) fits Aragorn really, really well. It works excellently.

Only if you ignore the fact that Aragorn's class was ranger and his race is what gave him his inspiring abilities. The Warlord class fails spectacularly to fit Aragorn, because class is not the same as race.

Now, people may not like the Warlord, and that's perfectly fine. But, it can model Aragorn extremely well. As well as modeling any other "captain" type character that inspires those around him or her.

It can't model him well. It can model him somewhat if you use warlord/ranger like the 3e UA gestalt characters. Multiclass fails, because it would gimp his ranger levels too much, and single class warlord fails completely because class is not the same as race and removes all of Aragorn's ranger abilities. The way to model him extremely well would be to create a race similar to the Dunedain with that races inspiring charisma, and then make him a ranger.

 

[pemerton]

The thing that annoys me is the thought that if your character does something "inspiring" then they must be a Warlord. Samwise Gamgee does something inspiring so must be a Warlord. Gandalf does something inspiring so must be a Warlord.

Want your character to say something inspiring? Are you playing a Warlord? So, no you can not.

In the D&D context, I don't really see how this is any different from - if you pray and your prayer is answered, you must be a cleric.

That's how D&D works.

 

[pemerton]

It can't model him well. It can model him somewhat if you use warlord/ranger like the 3e UA gestalt characters. Multiclass fails, because it would gimp his ranger levels too much, and single class warlord fails completely because class is not the same as race and removes all of Aragorn's ranger abilities. The way to model him extremely well would be to create a race similar to the Dunedain with that races inspiring charisma, and then make him a ranger.

What game system are you even talking abou here?

There are no "ranger abilities" that a 4e ranger receives which are necessary to model Aragorn. If you want to play Aragorn in 4e, warlord is an excellent start. A ranger multiclass feat will give you an extra skill and a 1x/enc Hunter's Quarry.

 

[Maxperson]

What game system are you even talking abou here?

There are no "ranger abilities" that a 4e ranger receives which are necessary to model Aragorn. If you want to play Aragorn in 4e, warlord is an excellent start. A ranger multiclass feat will give you an extra skill and a 1x/enc Hunter's Quarry.

Again, it's an "excellent start" if you ignore that class isn't race. None of Aragorn's abilities that are "modeled" by warlord were from a class. As a Dunedain, he had supernatural gifts from his elven, human and maia blood. His class was literally ranger, which was created in D&D to model him.

 

[Aldarc]

Again, it's an "excellent start" if you ignore that class isn't race. None of Aragorn's abilities that are "modeled" by warlord were from a class. As a Dunedain, he had supernatural gifts from his elven, human and maia blood. His class was literally ranger, which was created in D&D to model him.

The problem is that this is sometimes not always so clear cut a distinction. For example, see the blurred lines between Gandalf (and other Istari) with the wizard class or hobbits/halflings and the rogue class. And even within the D&D's own traditions, race effectively was a class.

Edit: Also, let's not pretend that multiple classes cannot be inspired by or modeled on a singular character (see any given "what class would X fictional character be" thread for further evidence).

 

[Maxperson]

The problem is that this is sometimes not always so clear cut a distinction. For example, see the blurred lines between Gandalf (and other Maia) with the wizard class or hobbits/halflings and the rogue class. And even within the D&D's own traditions, race effectively was a class.

Hobbits make excellent burglars, because they are naturally stealthy. Burglar(thief) is the class and they get a leg up due to their racial abilities over other burglars. That's clear in the books and not blurred at all. It's also clear that Gandalf is not a wizard just because he is maia. He is a maia who is ALSO a member of the order of the Istari(wizards). Maiar had abilities based on some aspect of nature. Gandalf was wisdom, Sauruman was creation/fabrication of items(which made him similar Sauron in that regard), Radagast was nature, and so on. So Gandalf was a maia of wisdom(race) who was also a wizard(class).

 

[Parmandur]

In OD&D, race was class. And Tolkien's characters are not subject to game terminology from a latter time.

 

[Aldarc]

Hobbits make excellent burglars, because they are naturally stealthy. Burglar(thief) is the class and they get a leg up due to their racial abilities over other burglars. That's clear in the books and not blurred at all. It's also clear that Gandalf is not a wizard just because he is maia. He is a maia who is ALSO a member of the order of the Istari(wizards). Maiar had abilities based on some aspect of nature. Gandalf was wisdom, Sauruman was creation/fabrication of items(which made him similar Sauron in that regard), Radagast was nature, and so on. So Gandalf was a maia of wisdom(race) who was also a wizard(class).

Again, Maxperson, I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's as clear as you make it out to be. A lot of Gandalf's character clearly influenced D&D wizards - to a certain extent (among many other oft-repeated other sources) - but a lot of his wizarding was clearly an aspect of being of the Maiar race.