White Wolf can take their Web Extras & Shove it!

[Master of the Game]

You have a whole bunch of RPG books that promise free bonus materials that never materialized or were later charged for? Can you give any examples?

A big one for me is Spycraft 2.0. When people complained that 2.0 was coming out so soon after the 1st edition the writers promised to make it worth while by releasing updates for all their old products for free. That was actually what sold me on the new edition. Then, after starting the project the writers ended up buying the license for the game and going into business for themselves. They immediately stopped the free stuff, and a year or so later started re-releasing the exact same first edition books as PDFs with the updates as a couple page addendum on the back. Now if you want the 2.0 updates you have to buy copies of books you likely already own (if you're interested in the updates that is) for a couple of pages tacked onto the back of the book.

To me that's far more egregious.

 

[Jim Hague]

A big one for me is Spycraft 2.0. When people complained that 2.0 was coming out so soon after the 1st edition the writers promised to make it worth while by releasing updates for all their old products for free. That was actually what sold me on the new edition. Then, after starting the project the writers ended up buying the license for the game and going into business for themselves. They immediately stopped the free stuff, and a year or so later started re-releasing the exact same first edition books as PDFs with the updates as a couple page addendum on the back. Now if you want the 2.0 updates you have to buy copies of books you likely already own (if you're interested in the updates that is) for a couple of pages tacked onto the back of the book.

To me that's far more egregious.

It's also a flat-out lie - the free stuff was delivered on the Crafty Games site. The release of the PDFs was due to customer demand, and the conversion notes included, along with complete reindexing, bookmarking and other goodies, as a laginappe. Thanks to said writers buying the license, there's more and better SC products coming down the line, instead of it being dead.

So don't go slamming people on their 'egregious' actions when they're nothing of the sort, 'kay? It's wrong, and it shows.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

First,

I'm not ticked off at WW or anything. This is actually a Very Good Product (Better than I was expecting in fact).

I'm not advocating Boycotting them or anything.

I was mainly annoyed, then frustrated, but never to the point of being really hacked off (extremly frustrated, but not angry). It more after the fact when I realize how simple it would be to have negated my frustration that I actually become a little irate.


A few more things since I've been able to read through the book more:

1. Cloud Serpent. This is the monster that refers to the web extras 3,4 times. Keeps saying see "Wind Serpent" in Web Extra. However, now that I've had time to read it, all the needed info for the monster is in the entry (I'm guessing a lot of Setting Fluff is in the extra, which I don't need).

2. I guess I know what is in the Web Extras from the Monsters by CR table in the back (Everything in the 'Web Bonus' is noted). In fact, of non-SRD monsters, most seem to be in the older Manual of Monsters Book (Which I have).


The charging for it is an annoyance, much like how my lunch came with an individually wrapped mint, the kind you tear open & I couldn't get it open & resulted to Scissors. This wasn't even in the "Out of Toilet Paper" level of annoyance. I could care less that they are charing for it. After all, most of it is SRD Monsters, or updated from the (already 3.5) Manual of Monsters. 4 Bucks is a little high.

It is the Frustration that really got to me. The book told me to do A, then get B. I did A (went to the Warcraft Website). And B was nowhere. I went to the Monster Guide Web Page, still no B. In fact, I had to find out from there Public Forums (by just a normal user) where B actaully resided. That's what really just drove me bonkers.

Part is due to the Fact I'm testing out our new Web-Based Procurement Software at work. I spend 8 Hours a Day doing things EXACTLY as documented, only to get nada. Transfering this lack of, well, lack of something to my hobby is not well appreciated.

How hard is it to put a LINK on the Product Page when you reference Web Extras over & over & over. If you put the effort into mentioned SEE WEB EXTRAS 10-12 times & GO TO WWW.WARCRAFTRPG.COM 10-12 times.

HOW FREAKIN' HARD IS IT TOO PUT A LINK ON WARCRAFTRPG.COM LINKING TO THE BLEEPIN' PRODUCT?!?!?!?!?!

You go to all this effort then Forget to put a Link in? That's like Running a Marathon & remebering at Mile 24 you forgot to register. It's either Total Incompetence, or a potetnially serious flaw in your communication chain. Despite what some think of WW, Incompetent they are not.

That is the crux of my disgust (I probablly would have only printed out 3-4 pages anyway). I did exactly what they told me to do, & didn't even bother putting a Link to the (now) Priced Web Extra.

 

[Dire Bare]

It's also a flat-out lie - the free stuff was delivered on the Crafty Games site. The release of the PDFs was due to customer demand, and the conversion notes included, along with complete reindexing, bookmarking and other goodies, as a laginappe. Thanks to said writers buying the license, there's more and better SC products coming down the line, instead of it being dead.

So don't go slamming people on their 'egregious' actions when they're nothing of the sort, 'kay? It's wrong, and it shows.

Whoah. Could it be possible that Master of the Game is simply mistaken and was not aware of the free updates . . .

The term "flat-out lie" seems a bit hasty to me, but maybe you know more than I do . . .

 

[Master of the Game]

It's also a flat-out lie - the free stuff was delivered on the Crafty Games site. The release of the PDFs was due to customer demand, and the conversion notes included, along with complete reindexing, bookmarking and other goodies, as a laginappe. Thanks to said writers buying the license, there's more and better SC products coming down the line, instead of it being dead.

So don't go slamming people on their 'egregious' actions when they're nothing of the sort, 'kay? It's wrong, and it shows.

No need to be rude, particularly when you are incorrect.

From the Crafty Forums:

Posted By Number Three on 08/08/2006 11:53 PM
For those that already have a 1.0 library in hardcover form, do you guys plan on putting the conversion doc in the downloads section?

Posted By Morgenstern on 08/15/2006 10:52 AM
Not presently. The conversions are intended as a small incentive for those buying the books from Crafty Games. It's likely that most of the new bits that appear in the conversion documents will be reprinted in NEW Crafty products where apropriate.

Next time get your facts straight before berating other posters.

Like I said before, there was an effort to provide stuff, but half way through the firstShadowforce Archer book work was halted with the better part of a psi system done. Everything since then is fan created.

Unless you want to go buy PDFs of existing and outdated books.

Edit: A link to my source. If you can provide a link to a page containing conversion materials for all the 1.0 books (that are not fan-created) I'll gladly apologize, but otherwise I think that you should consider an apology yourself.

Oh, and the word is spelled 'lagniappe'.

 

[Jim Hague]

No need to be rude, particularly when you are incorrect.

From the Crafty Forums:

Next time get your facts straight before berating other posters.

And prior to the Spycraft forums on Alderac being removed, all of the conversion material was available for free there. The base conversion material was available, and halted partway through the psi conversion. All of it was something done for free, and something that Crafty has gotten nothing but grief over since:

http://www.crafty-games.com/dnn/Com...forumid/8/postid/3976/view/topic/Default.aspx

Which, starts off with a conversion. But also refer here:

http://www.crafty-games.com/dnn/Com...8/tpage/3/view/Topic/postid/3976/Default.aspx

Like I said before, there was an effort to provide stuff, but half way through the firstShadowforce Archer book work was halted with the better part of a psi system done. Everything since then is fan created.

Unless you want to go buy PDFs of existing and outdated books.

Edit: A link to my source. If you can provide a link to a page containing conversion materials for all the 1.0 books (that are not fan-created) I'll gladly apologize, but otherwise I think that you should consider an apology yourself.

Oh, and the word is spelled 'lagniappe'.

As Morgenstern pointed out, there was conversion material made available, and then added to make out of print products more appealing to those that wanted them and had asked for them. They were under no obligation, promise or contract to provide it for free, or the PDFs later. And as several posts on the second page of that thread demonstrate, his by a fan, for fans effort got him nothing but grief.

Edit: Edited by mod request.

 

[Rel]

Ok, enough of the snark and sarcasm filled drama fest. This is going well beyond the bounds of civil discussion.

 

[DonTadow]

rrrr just interjecting here. Earlier i raised a question about the Pimps game? I dont keep up on it so I don't knowwhat was meant by the "problems with the pimps game?" I own it and was curious why i can only order it online?

 

[Master of the Game]

Ok, enough of the snark and sarcasm filled drama fest. This is going well beyond the bounds of civil discussion.

Absolutely true. Sorry. Being called a liar got my hackles up and it was too late for my better judgment to kick in.

My apologies thread.