Why does epic level play entail treating death as a "speed bump"?

[Green Knight]

Not so fast, there is nothing stating that you would only have one such daily power. You could have 4 daily powers all with "once per day, when you die", we simply do not have enough information to assume that kill 'em twice would be enough nor that it would make rituals no longer work after the combat.

Four daily's, yeah, but two of them are from the Paragon tier, not Epic. Is it possible that the other two might be of the resurrect variety? Certainly. Although that really seems like a waste. You get two epic Daily powers, and they're going to effectively do the same thing?

Well, even if they do, then kill 'em three times. As for Rituals, we already know that Raise Dead has a built-in story reason explaining why it doesn't always work. So if the DM really wanted a character dead, he can say "Sorry, it was his destiny to die, so he stays dead".

 

[Wormwood]

So if the DM really wanted a character dead, he can say "Sorry, it was his destiny to die, so he stays dead".

For an NPC, sure. But only for an NPC.

 

[Green Knight]

For an NPC, sure. But only for an NPC.

Have you seen any indication that it's just for NPC's? Because my impression was that it was basically DM's choice as to who could be raised and who couldn't. An NPC could be raised if a DM wanted that to be the case, and a PC can't for the same reason. And even if there actually were a rule that stated "This Ritual must always be allowed to work on PC's, DM's be damned", how is that different from prior editions, again?

 

[Campbell]

So if the DM really wanted a character dead, he can say "Sorry, it was his destiny to die, so he stays dead".

That depends on who has the narrative authority to determine if a PC has an unfulfilled destiny. Personally, I'd leave that decision up to the player. Some DMs will choose to make that determination themselves.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Another (half-random) idea, why Epic treats death as a speed bump - after playing through 20+ levels of the game, you have developed more attachment to your character. And due to this, it's probable, that you're more annoyed by not getting to play him than on lower levels.

Plus: On Epic level, it's much harder to find a replacement PC (verisimilitude-wise), even for a single session, until the "Raise Dead"-ritual is finished. And due to "epic" storylines, time concerns are perhaps different - you don't have time to stay dead, if the apocalypse is looming.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Jack99]

I just banned death in my last game. Worked out quite well!

Because no-one died and they thus never realized it was missing?

 

[Jack99]

Maybe 4e epic play will treat death like a simple speed-bump, because in order to progress to epic levels, all clerics most complete their epic quest and get themselves a noodle..

 

[HeinorNY]

*cough* Gandalf *cough*

Good call.
When you are Epic and get killed, the gods themselves send you back to finish what you started.
In Epic gaming, the greater risk is not to get yourself killed, but to fail your mission, allow the BBEG to destroy the world, etc.

 

[Deep Blue 9000]

I love threads like these.

They get people who are fervently pro-4e to justify a feature of 4e "because that's the way it's always been done". Now we just need to get some grognards in here demanding radical change that's never been seen in D&D before.

 

[HeinorNY]

They get people who are fervently pro-D&D to justify a feature of 4e "because that's the way it's always been done".

FIFY