Why does fantasy dominate RPGs?

Celebrim

Legend
Something like Firefly, which was pretty low tech, probably should have been a zero-g ship.

Yes, but Firefly almost certainly should fit in the science fantasy or space fantasy genera, with it's t-paths and pre-cogs, it's heavy reliance on the fantasy Western and the genera tropes there of, and the fact that it plays extremely fast and loose with physics to the extent of being set in what is a effectively an alternative universe. No FTL, but to get a FTL like type Star Trek universe where each village is a whole trope world, it simply imagines a solar system with 100's of Earth-like worlds existing in a vast habitable zone larger than the solar system - something no real universe solar system could manage and be stable in epochal time to say nothing of the massive problems of a star or stars warming such a system. The engine of the ship is ridiculously low tech, to the point of resembling a diesel engine, and yet seems to generate gravity and anti-gravity fields. So basically, it's magic, and we aren't supposed to think hard about the science-y stuff. In fact, one of the commandments in the writer's bible for Firefly is basically that no technology will exist that will essentially transform life as we know it now. Or in other words, the science has no impact on the setting.
 

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TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
Haha to 1. That is spot on for me.

Re: 3. Where would you place The Walking Dead? That is huge -- I'm thinking it is currently the #1 show. It's set in the modern era, but has folks reduced to a very narrow, nearly medieval, mode. (Why haven't folks setup some generators, or solar cells? Do folks in the frozen north need to deal with zombies in the winter? Do zombies freeze?) Does its placement as a post-apocalyptic story make it sci-fi? Or is it fantasy because it has zombies? Sci-fi zombies perhaps, because the cause is a plague. But, that is pretty thin, and fantasy zombies could be caused by a plague, too.

Does the recent batch of superhero movies count as sci-fi? Not really new content, but a new mode of presentation.

Thx!
TomB

Thats the thing, if Sci-fi is broad enough, that could all be sci-fi. And yes, zombies and supers are big. But that does not mean we are seeing a bunch of Asimov or Bradbury adaptations, or recent original space opera.

One thing I did forget is the mini-boom in hard science fiction movies: Gravity, Interstellar, Mission to Mars, Arrival. So, that is some real sci-fi. Its less action adventure oriented, but worth noting.

But there are all kinds of movies and TV shows that make money, and many that fail horribly.

RPGs are a little different.
 

Calithorne

Explorer
I'm a lawyer, so I'm going to approach this from a lawyer's point of view. The modern legal system ruins adventures. And that's why fantasy is much easier to make an adventure for than science fiction, because fantasy almost always assumes a world with a non-existent legal system, while science-fiction almost always assumes a world that resembles our modern world, except with high tech elements thrown in, and that includes a modern legal system. And in the modern world, the one we live in, the legal system ruins adventures, and so it would be in your typical science fiction setting.

What I mean by that is that if your neighbor's cattle are drinking from your water hole, you don't round up the boys and have a shoot out to resolve things. You hire a lawyer, and you sue your neighbor. If your daughter is kidnapped, you don't load up on ammo and strap on your bullet-proof vest and go catch the killer, you call the police and have them look for the killer. Now, all this can be hand waved in a movie or TV show, because the cops conveniently never investigate no matter how much property damage the characters wreak, or how many people they kill in their quest for vengeance, but in the context of a role playing game, this lack of realism will quickly stack up to an unbelievable adventure. The fact is, in a modern setting, or any science fiction setting that resembles the real world, a SWAT team will show up in minutes and quickly ruin the combat the PCs are having with the villains.

There are ways to solve this problem, you place the adventure in a place that is on the outskirts of civilization, and have a Wild West type campaign where law enforcement may be only one sheriff 100 miles away. Or you put your campaign in a setting where the government is unjust, and law enforcement is corrupt, and so the characters have no choice but to take the law into their own hands. Or you put your campaign in a setting of constant civil war, where law and order have broken down, so the characters have no one but themselves to turn to when there's a problem. Or the main characters can be criminals, and fighting the law is the main element of the adventure.

Star Wars solves the problem with three approaches. In Edge of the Empire, characters are people who are on the boundaries of the law, in a Wild West setting. In Age of Rebellion, characters are caught up in a civil war, and the war drives the action. In Force and Destiny, the characters are hunted fugitives, unsafe even on the core worlds from the possibility of arrest by the authorities.

The reason Traveler doesn't work so well, is because it assumes a stable government, with well enforced laws, and the government is mostly benign. Traveler adventures involve loading up on passengers, mail and cargo, and moving them to another planet, while paying the mortgage on the ship, which involves a lot of bookkeeping.

I created a science fiction campaign which started with a terrorist incident that threw the entire Imperial government into a state of chaos, and led to a civil war. The characters spent the entire time fleeing from one planet to the next, staying just a few steps ahead of the evil Home Party, which had overthrown the Emperor and was now clamping down on all space travelers and throwing them into detention camps. It was a frantic chase, and it worked, but it was a lot harder to create this adventure than a simple fantasy dungeon, with traps and monsters.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
White Wolf came pretty close in the early 90s. Nothing last forever.

And notice that they got there with largely fantasy with an element of horror.

There's a little something to be said for the top game always being a D&D variant in part because it was the first. But I also think it's significant that it was a fantasy game that first lent itself to the RPG fad/hobby. I also think it's significant to note that most of the RPGs that have broken the top 5 over the last decade with sci-fi elements also have a substantial amount of fantasy to them - Shadowrun, Mutants and Masterminds, Star Wars. All ameliorate the challenges of running sci-fi (and being up on high-tech science with some verisimilitude) by incorporating a lot more science-fantasy.

Ultimately, the more you incorporate fantasy, the less you have to worry about how or why things work. Magic takes over because, quite simply, it's magic. Teleports get you around or characters fly or use their satellite HQ's transporter and it all just works according to an arbitrary rule decision while sci-fi is trying to make the choice of using some kind of faster than light technology (hyper/jump space, warp drive, or star gates?) that will probably have an effect beyond just travel. All that stuff could just move at the speed of plot (like pretty much all J.J. Abrams sci-fi whether Star Trek or Star Wars) and virtually ignore the awesome distances involved but a whole lot of sci-fi fans/propeller heads aren't going to be satisfied with that. They'll want some kind of justification for it and will probably accept less handwavium in the answer than the fantasy fan. And that's a lot harder.
 

MarkB

Legend
It's true that science fiction has something of an edge in cinema, and moreso on TV. But in literature there's no clear front-runner, with both genres doing roughly equally well, and historically that was also a major influence upon RPGs.

I think to some extent it's easier to find commonality in fantasy settings than in SF settings, and to create a 'kitchen-sink' into which to drop a variety of quasi-medieval settings and campaigns. Because, in SF settings, the technology itself has almost a personality of its own (the starship Enterprise, the Millennium Falcon, phasers, lightsabers, transporters, droids), it's trickier to create a really universal system into which you can drop a specifically themed campaign and have all those elements come to life in iconic fashion.

It can still be done, but it just happens that it wasn't done well enough by any one system to become a global market leader.
 

aramis erak

Legend
If we look at TV and movies, sci-fi far outweighs fantasy is sheer volume of properties. There's GoT, of course, and some others, but sci-fi is far more prevalent. Modern day, of course, outweighs both on TV and cinema by orders of magnitude, but there are obvious reasons for that.

Why does sci-fi outweighs fantasy on TV and silver screen?

And, conversely, why does this not translate to RPGs? Why is fantasy the largest genre there?

Any thoughts on the reasons why? Simply because D&D was first?

It's be interesting to see a breakdown of the different genres and their popularity and compare them across different mediums - movies, TV, novels, comics, RPGs. Fantasy, sci-fi, superhero, horror, comedy, crime, war, spy, etc.

There isn't a lot of good Sci-Fi on TV. Rather, there's very little fantasy or sci-fi on US TV, and most of that is either BBC or police procedurals. And what is there is, in both genres (Sci-Fi, Fantasy) largely retellings of novels that sold well.

Firefly was a flop, remember.

Most of what Syfy channel releases is fantasy in space. Not Sci-Fi. ANd a lot of it is rubbish.

In lit, Fantasy dominates because it can provide deep expositions, and can explain the differences.

In RPGs, the props and FX budgets are non-issues. The exposition can also be present. All of which leads to a proliferation of settings.

In RPG's, the "That's wrong" factor is far more heavily present in Sci-Fi than Fantasy - lower bar for verisimilitude when, "It's magic" is a valid defense...
 


aramis erak

Legend
There's loads of it right now!

No, not really. Super-heroes are not Sci-Fi, but fantasy. Star Wars isn't Sci-fi, either. Trek barely is, and half the episodes aren't; the recent movies are way across the line into fantasy land. Dr. Who is way into lala-land.

And in the movies, Interstellar was good Sci-Fi. But the blockbusters are fantasies - JJ-Trek, Star Wars, LOTR/Hobbit, Potterverse, Marvel and DC Comics offerings...

I am told Dark Matter is Good Sci-Fi - but I found it boring and unwatchable, but definitely in Sci-Fi. Bad sci-fi.
I have no chance to watch the Expanse. The discussions seem to put it in true sci-fi.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
No, not really. Super-heroes are not Sci-Fi, but fantasy. Star Wars isn't Sci-fi, either. Trek barely is, and half the episodes aren't; the recent movies are way across the line into fantasy land. Dr. Who is way into lala-land.

And in the movies, Interstellar was good Sci-Fi. But the blockbusters are fantasies - JJ-Trek, Star Wars, LOTR/Hobbit, Potterverse, Marvel and DC Comics offerings...

I am told Dark Matter is Good Sci-Fi - but I found it boring and unwatchable, but definitely in Sci-Fi. Bad sci-fi.
I have no chance to watch the Expanse. The discussions seem to put it in true sci-fi.

Well, that's just a sterling example of the No True Scotsman fallacy! :)
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Here's some of the si-fi TV this year, ignoring superhero stuff. This is just off the top of my head; I'm sure there's much more.

The Expanse (I love that show!)
Doctor Who
Orphan Black
Star Wars Rebels
Dark Matter
Humans
Stranger Things
Colony
Sense8
Continuum (think that's finished now though)
Killjoys
12 Monkeys
Travelers
Red Dwarf
The 100 (not seen this)
Black Mirror
Westworld
The X-Files (6 eps last year, 10 more coming)
Class

And there's tons of stuff which ended in the last few years, and tons of stuff coming in the next year or two.
 

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