Why I dislike Milestone XP

[Swarmkeeper]

I guess to me its strange that when a player isn't' there his PC wandered off or something. In 30 years of D&D we have always done it where he is a party NPC for that session. So we have never encountered this issue, well outside of making a new PC that comes in at a different level. And then I've never had a player complain about it. Bottom line is other groups are strange.

I've done this with our 4 player Curse of Strahd campaign. If only 3 players can make it, we still play and the 4th PC is along for the ride as an NPC with one of the other players handling the rolls. All players level at the same pace (and I am using XP - and not just for killing things - rather than milestones).

OTOH, for our 8 player homebrew campaign, we have set it up from the start that if a player can't make it, the PC is doing something mundane like guarding the camp or foraging or whatever makes sense until the player can rejoin. It just works - no one gets bent or feels punished that their character didn't "earn" XP while they weren't actually playing that night. The varied PC levels at the table are fine and no one is competitive about it - it's a cooperative party and everyone is glad for the contributions that each other can make. If a PC should die, the player can roll up a character at 2 levels lower than current.

So yeah, I've experienced that different methods for different tables can still be fun.

 

[Warpiglet]

I guess to me its strange that when a player isn't' there his PC wandered off or something. In 30 years of D&D we have always done it where he is a party NPC for that session. So we have never encountered this issue, well outside of making a new PC that comes in at a different level. And then I've never had a player complain about it. Bottom line is other groups are strange.

This is how we do it as well...with player consent. We take general instructions and play as they have. If they don't charge into melee range we won't make them. If they die, they die. But we are grown ups and look out for eachother's fun. In many years I can only remember someone complaining about losing some items when pickpocketed while not present. Oh well.

 

[Sunseeker]

No, and no.

"whatever they want" is to play some D&D, and yeah, they get XP for doing it. That doesn't mean every campaign is or has to be any particular way.

Also, it's still not clear to me why you quoted me mentioning it seemed like you have too much experience with players that don't mesh with your DM style and made your counter to a claim that no one appears to have made.

Maybe you should re-read the OP so that you're clear on what he is talking about, and don't confuse it with whatever you think you're talking about.

Because the OP called out DMs who don't give players XP for doing whatever the players want to do as incompetent.

 

[MoominT]

Perhaps considering it from another angle will help. Milestone XP is supposed to be tied to specific events and challenges. If you overcome those challenges, you get the XP. What would that do for your sense of achievement compared to standard XP?

Story-based advancement is also tied to accomplishing significant goals in the campaign, except it doesn't use XP. The DM just awards levels. In theory, you don't get those levels if you don't accomplish those significant goals. How do you feel about the sense of achievement there, assuming there was ever a possibility you could fail?

Good points and if your game was fun to play in, I would be a happy camper! but its too easy for milestone xp to seem/feel wrong, in the hands of a less than great DM. For me that perosn could always give out xp and I would be happy regardless.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Maybe you should re-read the OP so that you're clear on what he is talking about, and don't confuse it with whatever you think you're talking about.

Because the OP called out DMs who don't give players XP for doing whatever the players want to do as incompetent.

No reason to be rude. You think I'm failing to read something properly, maybe quote it for me instead of making vague claims about it that don't appear to have back up from facts - I don't see the word "incompetent" nor any of its synonyms anywhere in the OP, nor anything that supports your earlier claim that the OP said "all campaigns are free roaming do-whatever-you-want sandboxes." or something to that effect.

 

[iserith]

Good points and if your game was fun to play in, I would be a happy camper! but its too easy for milestone xp to seem/feel wrong, in the hands of a less than great DM. For me that perosn could always give out xp and I would be happy regardless.

Yes, as I mentioned upthread, I think milestone XP or story-based advancement works better when it is tied to concrete events, challenges, or goals that the players know in advance. Many times in story-based advancement the feeling is that you level up whenever the DM feels like it and that can, for some, detract from the feeling of achievement. Myself, I like to know what I have to do, what I get for doing it, and that I have a chance to fail. That's ideal for me. But I've also been in games where none of things are apparent and because of the group I still have fun.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

In my games, xp are never at stake, yet somehow, my players send their characters into harms way frequently. See, in my games, they are running characters, not moving chess pieces, and for those characters, there is often a lot at stake and they never heard of xp.

That sounds more like they're in it for the loot, then. I'm not saying that's exactly it, but it's a similar form of risk/reward dynamic. Maybe you want to rescue your brother from the clutches of an evil cult, as an example. You risk your life, and perhaps you save him. If you could save him without risking your life, then you would obviously do that instead.

Everyone optimizes. It is what makes us human. The only difference between making decisions as an individual, and moving a chess piece, is that the world you live in and a game of chess follow different rules.

 

[5ekyu]

That sounds more like they're in it for the loot, then. I'm not saying that's exactly it, but it's a similar form of risk/reward dynamic. Maybe you want to rescue your brother from the clutches of an evil cult, as an example. You risk your life, and perhaps you save him. If you could save him without risking your life, then you would obviously do that instead.

Everyone optimizes. It is what makes us human. The only difference between making decisions as an individual, and moving a chess piece, is that the world you live in and a game of chess follow different rules.

But the difference i see is that goals like getting more gold andcssving brother etc are ones in game that the characters have, while getting more xp by doing it one way vs the other is out of game world decision making.

 

[GameOgre]

Maybe you should re-read the OP so that you're clear on what he is talking about, and don't confuse it with whatever you think you're talking about.

Because the OP called out DMs who don't give players XP for doing whatever the players want to do as incompetent.

Not in any way did I say that.

 

[Phasestar]

In my campaign, we award XP as follows and have been doing so for many years (since the 90s) and it has worked very well:

- Monsters defeated/slain
- Major obstacles overcome / quests completed / non-combat achievements
- Roleplaying in character
- Special bonuses for especially noteworthy accomplishments, can include completing an entire story arc for example.

If you miss the session, your character plays as a NPC and your character earns half XP for that session (with none for roleplaying of course).

The RP XP is usually awarded for just making an effort to be in character with extra bonuses if you really pulled off a great RP moment or two.

The obstacle/quest rewards are a sort of milestone XP, but I find that without the other award areas to give more resolution, the incentives are not setup for the players to get the kind of play I would like to see and players are not as excited. I do generally let players know how much XP was gained from each category. The calculating and handing out of XP takes me about 10 minutes at the end of each session. Entirely milestone would of course be quicker, but I believe it's worth the time.