Why I dislike Milestone XP

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I am sure they must use some kind of leveling up mechanic, well except Cthulhu does that game even support recurring PC's?

Call of Cthulhu both supports (and assumes, just like most RPGs) recurring player characters and has mechanics for characters improving their capabilities over time (though it does so without experience point tracking of any sort, as that is neither a requirement to be considered a "leveling up mechanic" nor to be considered a game, of the role-playing sort or otherwise).

 

[5ekyu]

I honestly could not tell you enough about those games to give an opinion on their RPGness. I am sure they must use some kind of leveling up mechanic, well except Cthulhu does that game even support recurring PC's?



Welcome

Well see its been a long time for some but...

Some of the Travellers realky did not have leveling up. After chargen you basically did not keep escalating stats ot avilities. You could get/find/huy/steal better gear and there were some downtime activities for hiring tutors but those were not at all the normal course of thing.

For others, like hero for supers level, its going to depend on setting and gm choices but a default scale could start you at say 400xp then award 1-2xp per session... Which yes is mostly trivial and ceetainly not "the game" as far as what goes on. Other variations included not leveling at all.

Many others -- much more milestone based approaches instead of mathy winning xp "games".

But the upshot is that for many of these things which call themselves and have been called RPGs, the mathy encounter based xp systems (contrasted to milestone, chapter, session etc) have not been required to be considered a "game."

Until now, i guess.

I have oft recommended that GMs are well served to run (or at least play in) a diceless ftf rpg game.

Maybe now i should add trying a non-xp one too.

 

[Mercule]

Is giving XP for choosing not to play for one reason or another a sign of respect? Or is it a sign of disrespect to not give XP when they don't attend for a reason I don't like?

Well, I guess it depends on your group. If someone in my group has to run his kid to the hospital, I'm definitely not going to see that as a reason for him to not advance at the same time as the other PCs. It's also not a unilateral decision on "a reason I don't like". It's the group's social contract.

Whatever social contract works for your group is appropriate for your group. I used to use the "no XP if you don't show" methodology and had no issues with it, at the time. I'd use it again, for a different group, too.

I think we moved to standardized XP, several years back, when several players -- none of whom had missed any sessions -- all had different totals written down. We assumed people had misheard, picked up their stuff before I'd awarded XP, or something similar, and just picked a total to assign to everyone. After that, the group got really casual about XP and some folks slowly stopped bothering to track it, since there were a couple of really anal-retentive types in the group. I'm sure players missed sessions, but it would have been for things that didn't bother anyone at the table. Ultimately, we just decided to track group XP, rather than character XP. It's pretty similar to how we moved from having all new/replacement PCs start at 1st level, to having them start at prior -1, to "just keep the same XP because losing a character sucks enough".

Now, moving from group XP to milestone actually was a GM call, on my part. I did it for reasons I explained in my first post. But... I ran it by the players and there were no objections. If there had been, we would have talked it through.

 

[tardigrade]

Call of Cthulhu both supports (and assumes, just like most RPGs) recurring player characters

*Technically*, but the only system we played where PCs had a shorter life expectancy was Paranoia

Actually, for a more serious contribution: for CoC 5e the progression was skill only (no hp), although you might learn new spells and get better equipment. IIRC the mechanic was: any skill you passed a check on during a session got a mark, at the end of the session you rolled for all skills with a mark, and any you *failed* improved. It was fairly simple and meant skills improved most slowly at low and high levels. I liked it.

 

[Dausuul]

Milestone xp seems a little railroady. Suppose I am not interested in your milestone and want to take my character in a different direction? Or what if I turn left instead of right?

Then I, the DM, pick new milestones depending on what your PC is currently trying to accomplish. You don't have to chase the goals I create for you; you can chase any goal you like, and you'll be rewarded for progress toward it. What matters is that you have a goal within the game world.

It's the same as any other XP award system: Reward the behavior you want to see from the players. "XP for kills" rewards players who seek out combat, and punishes players who avoid fights. "XP for gold" rewards players who look for opportunities to get rich, and punishes players who don't care about plunder. "XP (or levels) for milestones" rewards players who set goals and try to accomplish them, and punishes players who bumble around doing random stuff.

 

[GameOgre]

All I can say is that I've played with XP (still do in Adventure League) and without XP.

For me personally, when I'm the DM running my own campaign, I don't use XP. I've experienced exactly zero problems as a result, and for me gained a huge benefit - I don't spend any of my valuable time on an activity that I consider kind of pointless. This automatically defeats any arguments against "milestone advancement" as far as I'm concerned. Full stop, debate is over. Telling me it is "forced", or "lazy" or "contrived" or whatever doesn't change anything other than my opinion of you.

If you as a DM see value in calculating and distributing XP to your players, go for it. That's the only thing that matters.

XP isn't for the DM. FULL STOP do you have anything to say? oh you were wrong? happy you admit it. Your sorry and now going to use XP all the time? Well GREAT! FULL STOP DEBATE OVER!

Gee man your right if you just act like you control the argument in your post ...everything works out much better.

 

[Caliban]

XP isn't for the DM.

XP isn't "for" anyone. It's a tool used or not used by the DM as they choose. It's simply one possible way of tracking progress.

FULL STOP

Restart!

do you have anything to say?

Yup

oh you were wrong?

Not that though.

happy you admit it. Your sorry and now going to use XP all the time? Well GREAT! FULL STOP DEBATE OVER!

Impressive bit of delusional hyperbole there. One thing though. YOU don't get to tell me how my game should work. You literally have zero input on the matter. Sorry not sorry.

Gee man your right if you just act like you control the argument in your post ...everything works out much better.

I am right - because everything I said only applies to me personally and the home game I run. You know, the D&D campaign I actually do control, since I created the setting, the cosmology, and run all the games for.

You are right about one thing though - everything has worked out much better for me since I stopped using XP.

If you want to do it differently in a game you are running, then by all means. I only said the debate was settled for me not for everyone else.

Remember kids - Reading is Fundamental!

 

[GameOgre]

XP isn't "for" anyone. It's a tool used or not used by the DM as they choose. It's simply one possible way of tracking progress.



Restart!

Yup

Not that though.



Impressive bit of delusional hyperbole there. One thing though. YOU don't get to tell me how my game should work. You literally have zero input on the matter. Sorry not sorry.



I am right - because everything I said only applies to me personally and the home game I run. You know, the D&D campaign I actually do control, since I created the setting, the cosmology, and run all the games for.

You are right about one thing though - everything has worked out much better for me since I stopped using XP.

If you want to do it differently in a game you are running, then by all means. I only said the debate was settled for me not for everyone else.

Remember kids - Reading is Fundamental!

My entire post poking fun at you went right over your head.

 

[Caliban]

My entire post poking fun at you went right over your head.

Well, if by "poking fun" you mean "being entitled and whiny" - then no, not at all. I got the message loud and clear.

 

[Imaculata]

XP isn't for the DM. FULL STOP do you have anything to say? oh you were wrong? happy you admit it. Your sorry and now going to use XP all the time? Well GREAT! FULL STOP DEBATE OVER!

Is there a frowny face emote? Or just one with a really high raised eyebrow?